PAF SAM based Air Defense System - News, Discussion & Updates

Question: Multiple Brahmos fired on Rafiqui air base were intercepted but how come India managed to hit Sargodha, Murid, Bohlari, Shahbaz etc. Were the number of missiles fired on these were more than what India threw at Rafiqui? OR there were some gap in our IADS to protect these bases. Don't give me no damage crap because if one projectile can penetrate our ADS and hit main operational bases then 20 or 200 can do the same.
 
PakShaheen_79 said:
Question: Multiple Brahmos fired on Rafiqui air base were intercepted but how come India managed to hit Sargodha, Murid, Bohlari, Shahbaz etc. Were the number of missiles fired on these were more than what India threw at Rafiqui? OR there were some gap in our IADS to protect these bases. Don't give me no damage crap because if one projectile can penetrate our ADS and hit main operational bases then 20 or 200 can do the same.
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Sargodha, Murid and Nur Khan were not Brahmos.
 
PakShaheen_79 said:
Question: Multiple Brahmos fired on Rafiqui air base were intercepted but how come India managed to hit Sargodha, Murid, Bohlari, Shahbaz etc. Were the number of missiles fired on these were more than what India threw at Rafiqui? OR there were some gap in our IADS to protect these bases. Don't give me no damage crap because if one projectile can penetrate our ADS and hit main operational bases then 20 or 200 can do the same.
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Honestly I think Israel shows that achieving 100% interception rate is impossible in the face of a salvo. You can minimise it yes, but main thing is equal or more retaliation on the other side that is true deterrence.

They probably fired a mix of BrahMos and other subsonic cruise missiles like SCALP.
 
Rationalist said:
Honestly I think Israel shows that achieving 100% interception rate is impossible in the face of a salvo. You can minimise it yes, but main thing is equal or more retaliation on the other side that is true deterrence.

They probably fired a mix of BrahMos and other subsonic cruise missiles like SCALP.
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Scalps.

Brahmos goes a little stupid in spoofing and not exactly an agile system - once it misses it misses.

Scalp can rely on other means for retargeting and change its axis of attack.
 
Oscar said:
Scalps.

Brahmos goes a little stupid in spoofing and not exactly an agile system - once it misses it misses.

Scalp can rely on other means for retargeting and change its axis of attack.
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but from wreckage photos from those days some Scalps were intercepted as well, hard killed I believe. I think not all bases have/had same level of SAM coverage may be because limited availability of them across the country.
 
Rationalist said:
Honestly I think Israel shows that achieving 100% interception rate is impossible in the face of a salvo. You can minimise it yes, but main thing is equal or more retaliation on the other side that is true deterrence.

They probably fired a mix of BrahMos and other subsonic cruise missiles like SCALP.
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Spot on. Our biggest problem or shortcoming in this conflict was the failure in BDA backed by satellite imagery. According to an ex PAF officer (Air Cmdr Khalid Chishti) PAF threw more tonnage on 10th May 2025 on Indian targets then it did in the entire 17 days war of 65. Now question is, where this tonnage was dropped? It is unbelievable that there is not a SINGLE image/footage of any target being engaged! This is the most perplexing aspect of May 2025 conflict for me. We need more transparency here, lot more actually.
 
PakShaheen_79 said:
but from wreckage photos from those days some Scalps were intercepted as well, hard killed I believe. I think not all bases have/had same level of SAM coverage may be because limited availability of them across the country.
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Yes, wasn't layered enough. It was only recently we started focusing on a proper integrated air defence system. I think Pakistan will fill the gaps, lesson learned.
 
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Rationalist said:
Yes, wasn't layered enough. It was only recently we started focusing a proper integrated air defence system. I think Pakistan will fill the gaps, lesson learned.
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Certainly, I believe another lesson learned was that in order to hit an adversary many times of your size, you need a bigger punch. Point in case, Tiny Israel operating a large fleet of F-15s to hammer its enemy. PAF clearly lacks a similar platform. We always look at our size and justify that Oh we don't need heavy fighters but I wonder why don't we look at the size of adversary which we need to hit? Flankers are a big NO for PAF as Russia will not sell Pakistan and China can't provide us with due to their agreement with Moscow. A solution is required here or we will have to increase the numbers of Thunders and J-10s substantially like once China did with its J-7s and J-8s back in the day when J-10 was in development.
 
Oscar said:
Scalps.

Brahmos goes a little stupid in spoofing and not exactly an agile system - once it misses it misses.

Scalp can rely on other means for retargeting and change its axis of attack.
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Off topic, but a scaled up version of the Rasoob-250 with a ~450kg warhead and a similar mechanism of a jettisoned nose cone for precise IIR targeting can build a potent domestic equivalent to the SCALP.

And a lighter version around ~230-250kg warhead for more tactical strikes similar to Turkey's SOM series. Could explore different types of warheads like the BROACH for penetration.

Cruising at around Mach ~0.85 optimised for stealth.

Would be a potent family of 3 size variants paired with modular warhead types.

@FuturePAF

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