Pakistan-Af: Operation Khyber Storm

[muz]

The Taliban aren't interested in any agreement whatsoever. The entire dispute is based on the Durand Line.

You can have as many talks as you like. As long as the Durand Line border isn't addressed the Taliban and in fact all Afghans will continue to behave improperly.

There is no dispute to begin with they can bitch and moan all they want
if they are serious about taking out TTP and BLA then we can give them generous trade agreements cut on taxes sort of EU market like system otherwise these monkeys can enjoy their shithole of a country as much as they want these clowns dont even have running hospitals most of them come to PAK for basic illnesses and with their genious deceision to remove women from even healthcare when an afghan lady is about to give birth there will be no female nurses or midwife to care for her so her and her child survival will be pure luck.

 

[muz]

L mera , brotherly states . how about we dont take suggestions from a country who couldn't even protect their own sovereignty .
but turkey is fine

Turks did not involve outsiders when dealing with PKK

 

[hussain0216]

As long as the border is closed, you are putting MASSIVE pressure on Afghanistan that's equal to any air strikes


The damage to Afghan economy and trade is enormous and considering that one of their main source of taxation this is hurting Afghanistan bad



Afghanistan NEEDS Pakistan to open the border and be compliant and as long as we don't they will be hurting



You guys know I'm no fan of Afghanistan, and if it comes to it and we have to bomb the shit out of them then so be it, but if we can force change and compliance through talks and border closure then that is a better option

 

[Dalit]

There is no dispute to begin with they can bitch and moan all they want
if they are serious about taking out TTP and BLA then we can give them generous trade agreements cut on taxes sort of EU market like system otherwise these monkeys can enjoy their shithole of a country as much as they want these clowns dont even have running hospitals most of them come to PAK for basic illnesses and with their genious deceision to remove women from even healthcare when an afghan lady is about to give birth there will be no female nurses or midwife to care for her so her and her child survival will be pure luck.

I agree with you, but the Afghans beg to differ with us. The question is, how will Pakistan deal with this problem?

 

[muz]

I agree with your, but the Afghans beg to differ with us. The question is, how will Pakistan deal with this problem?

Well afghans never come out of their Durrani Era wild fantasy they still have delusion that they will cross KPK and Punjab and engage in mass looting and enrich themselves while killing/enslaving the locals
as long as they have they wild delusions long lasting serious talks/agreements will not happen on the other hand we took big L with these negotiations but well at least we know can test our domestic weapons systems on live human targets instead of static dummys

 

[Cipher212]

I've always had positive interaction with Afghans both abroad and in Pakistan, hence hold a soft spot for them. Would like to see this being resolved with talks but they are not making it easy. Especially the way they are behaving in current talks.

Whatever Afghan govt comes, they get stuck on the Durand line issue. They are unable to see the long game where if they give up this fight then both countries can improve their security and relations to a point where crossing the border will be like moving in Schengen.

 

[gamaji]

the problem is that all hostile opinion makers and countries like India quote our idiot politicians when they talk out of their a holes, I recall Khawaja asif also talked crap before just like this numb nut CM and the Indians and Afghans have used those statements against us.

Indians are looking for punctuation and grammar mistakes in our national narrative and commentaries by our office holders .. they are so desperate that they have even quoted our news anchors at official levels to build narrative against us. that Adil Raja guy who PTI has not disowned, goes to Indian channels talking against Pakistani state, now Indians can take us to the international court or just bring up the quotes of this idiot ...

Sir, with the availability of all this SM, these are the times of propaganda. Indians, as an enemy, would do what they are supposed to do. Yes, our politicians need some sort of training/orientation on how to talk with media without emitting crap or looking like a fool. However, since Pakistan's stance is based on principles, a mountain of falsehood (erected by globally infamous Indians and other hostile elements) can be countered/busted with small release truth from Pakistani side.

The real problem was that the state of Pakistan never talked bluntly in the past. For example, Pakistan never publicly talked about Indian state terrorism to expose the reality of Indian propaganda about 'cross-border terrorism'. This government is the first one to publicly expose the Indian terrorism at every forum (especially the UN). As Modi's deep isolation shows, Indians are forced to be defensive now.

we can ignore it if its Morad Saeed or Imran Khan's sisters because they dont hold any public office. the anger and hatred of PTI towards current military leadership is understander , in Pakistani politics its always everything self and personal and almost every political party has done that ... PPP Mustafa Khar used to say that PPP will come on Indian tanks to depose General Zia, Nawaz Sharif declared that Pakistan army backstabbed India by intruding into Kargil... but PTI has gone at an industrial scale when it comes to cursing Pakistan military. and their criticism is not even on principles because it wanted its own favourite general to become COAS to stay on same page.

PTI's going at an industrial scale when it comes to cursing Pakistan military is due to the actions of only one person, the internal enemy, Imran Ahmed Khotakhail. Unfortunately no one else is to blame for this enemy other than military itself. Pak establishment willingly adopted an enemy project and imposed a known Zionist mole on Pakistanis as their PM. For that, they have done everything possible, starting from political engineering and creating proxies groups/parties to massively rigging the 2018 general elections. Now the shit that they created themselves is continuously hitting the fan.

But the reality is that Pakistan and its military are inseparable. There are many not too distant examples of what happens to a state that is without a strong military. Syria, Libya, Iraq, Afghanistan, Sudan, you name it. All these nations endured vast death and destruction (losing the whole generations), dissolution of the state, and imposition of war lords and civil wars. Pakistan's position is much more precarious. Pakistan is a nuclear state. It has two enemy states on its east and west that publically want it be cannibalize and annexed.

 

[gamaji]

Turks did not involve outsiders when dealing with PKK

Correct. But Turks didn't have a seven times bigger Hundutva enemy on their east either.

 

[muz]

I've always had positive interaction with Afghans both abroad and in Pakistan, hence hold a soft spot for them. Would like to see this being resolved with talks but they are not making it easy. Especially the way they are behaving in current talks.

Whatever Afghan govt comes, they get stuck on the Durand line issue. They are unable to see the long game where if they give up this fight then both countries can improve their security and relations to a point where crossing the border will be like moving in Schengen.

They pretend to be good to us but in their heart they hate us

 

[Distant_Observer]

Correct. But Turks didn't have a seven times bigger Hundutva enemy on their east either.

There is no other country on this planet with as much resolve as Pakistan. They have managed to contain an enemy at the gates 7 times its size with limited resources.

 

[gamaji]

I've always had positive interaction with Afghans both abroad and in Pakistan, hence hold a soft spot for them. Would like to see this being resolved with talks but they are not making it easy. Especially the way they are behaving in current talks.

Whatever Afghan govt comes, they get stuck on the Durand line issue. They are unable to see the long game where if they give up this fight then both countries can improve their security and relations to a point where crossing the border will be like moving in Schengen.

Same here. Had many Afghans as friends in ME and US. Almost all of them were very respectful personally. But again these Taliban don't represent common Afghanistani people.

These Taliban are the ones who grew in madrassahs living on donations/Zakat and then directly elevated to a ruling status. Their mental growth is very different from those who are raised by their own parents. These animals have a built-in bias against women, many of them are homos, and most of them belong to the deprived echelons of the society. Afghan Taliban's reckless and rogue behaviour has a deep psyche issues. With kalashnikovs in their hands, they have turned into dreaded animals.

 

[Master Chief]

Declare all Afghan women as "oppressed", capture Afghan soil and open schools and colleges for girls there by the dozen, even if said school happens to be a mud hut.

The mullas will kill themselves.

Basically, give far more importance to their women and treat the men as scum.

It will split Afghan society down the middle.

The world will thank us. The people will rejoice.

Excellent idea. In practice though, those schools will become prime targets for the talib maniacs, particularly if we run them. I don't think anyone wants to see Afghanistan's daughters suffer any more than they already are.

We could directly fund and assist moderate factions though e.g. massoudists, to build and run such institutions in liberated regions. Definitely something to keep in the long term strategic planning.

 

[Blain2]

People are nor understanding it. Pakistan is being forced into these talks by countries that have interests with the Taliban. Taliban and their relatives live in countries like Qatar. Pakistan has no choice, but to attend these talks because Pakistan takes monetary help from these countries.

This is patently not the case.

Qatar and Turkey are doing this in earnest.

The key is that it is no longer as simple as sending a bunch of suicide bombers in Pakistan. There is a major cost to be paid for each suicide bombing in Pakistan and the Taliban know this. As I have said earlier, gone are the days of Taliban hiding in mountains. They have a country to run and that means they are visible and present. That means they can be openly targeted.

The issue is one of living with this situation for the long term. That is neither good for us nor for Afghanistan (actually it is way worse for them).

My own view, despite some of the naysayers and I'd say even Taliban sympathizers like Rahim Yousufzai claiming that Pakistan cannot antagonize Taliban because of their reaction, is that Pakistan has more leverage than people are being led to believe.

a) The economic leverage is that Pakistan is STILL the only major trade route for Taliban.

b) Militarily there is a massive overmatch in favor of Pakistan. Given Pakistan's new approach, every Taliban attack including the use of TTP and BLA, suicide attacks etc. will cause more damage to Taliban bc of Pakistani response. Taliban stand to lose out on trade, infrastructure, and would face a potentially major IDP problem if Pakistan presses hard and makes living untenable for ppl close to the border.

c) Yes, Taliban can resort to their Takfiri guerrilla tactics and take to the mountains of Afghanistan, but when they do that, the leave space open for other entities to take power. Pakistan could accelerate the displacement of Taliban government by backing other factions. Tajiks, Uzbeks etc. could be courted if needed. Pakistan could activate its cells and insert more people to destabilize the Taliban govt. Countless tactics could be used by GoP to do this.

d) Yes, Taliban could be aided by India through a covert war (they sort of already are but lets say RSS India steps up military supplies), but the entire region looks at the arming of Taliban as a problematic proposition including Russia, China, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan and even the US. Second, Pakistan and China could respond by upping the ante in IIOK and Indian tribal belt.

This is not to suggest that Pakistan should go the kinetic path. We should invest in the talks and get the Taliban to see the light. I still hope Taliban see the folly of their approach because it is a road to nowhere. It is more ruin for Afghanistan and perpetual war with Pakistan.

 

[Dalit]

This is patently not the case.

Qatar and Turkey are doing this in earnest.

The key is that it is no longer as simple as sending a bunch of suicide bombers in Pakistan. There is a major cost to be paid for each suicide bombing in Pakistan and the Taliban know this. As I have said earlier, gone are the days of Taliban hiding in mountains. They have a country to run and that means they are visible and present. That means they can be openly targeted.

The issue is one of living with this situation for the long term. That is neither good for us nor for Afghanistan (actually it is way worse for them).

My own view, despite some of the naysayers and I'd say even Taliban sympathizers like Rahim Yousufzai claiming that Pakistan cannot antagonize Taliban because of their reaction, is that Pakistan has more leverage than people are being led to believe.

a) The economic leverage is that Pakistan is STILL the only major trade route for Taliban.

b) Militarily there is a massive overmatch in favor of Pakistan. Given Pakistan's new approach, every Taliban attack including the use of TTP and BLA, suicide attacks etc. will cause more damage to Taliban bc of Pakistani response. Taliban stand to lose out on trade, infrastructure, and would face a potentially major IDP problem if Pakistan presses hard and makes living untenable for ppl close to the border.

c) Yes, Taliban can resort to their Takfiri guerrilla tactics and take to the mountains of Afghanistan, but when they do that, the leave space open for other entities to take power. Pakistan could accelerate the displacement of Taliban government by backing other factions. Tajiks, Uzbeks etc. could be courted if needed. Pakistan could activate its cells and insert more people to destabilize the Taliban govt. Countless tactics could be used by GoP to do this.

d) Yes, Taliban could be aided by India through a covert war (they sort of already are but lets say RSS India steps up military supplies), but the entire region looks at the arming of Taliban as a problematic proposition including Russia, China, Tajikistan, Uzbekistan and even the US. Second, Pakistan and China could respond by upping the ante in IIOK and Indian tribal belt.

This is not to suggest that Pakistan should go the kinetic path. We should invest in the talks and get the Taliban to see the light. I still hope Taliban see the folly of their approach because it is a road to nowhere. It is more ruin for Afghanistan and perpetual war with Pakistan.

I hope you are right. Let's wait and see. Only time will tell if the Taliban behave through talks. I have severe doubts.

I think the territorial dispute will keep the Taliban from behaving improperly.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

Border closures enter 19th day, stalling bilateral trade