Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions

[Ibbi32]

I have been thinking the same for some time. Now I am of the opinion that a version of JH7B could have been adopted by PAF 15 years ago. Our next bet is KAAN bl3 5.5 gen fighter with TF35000 engine that can fill in that void. Not sure if J35 can fill in that gap

We were offered su-27s by russians since The 1992 but our government was too skeptical and committed to french relationship and the corruption involved in mirages. A shame because despite everything they couldve been incredibly valuable assets

 

[Blain2]

Really wish we had some of our own heavyweight su-30 equivalents with something like air launched F2/smash

J-10 can do a lot more beyond lobbing PL-15s.

 

[Hussain]

type rated on the 737

boss is type rated on the 787 for sure

 

[RocketLaw]

Do we know how to prevent F-35s and some advanced planes into Pakistan space ?

Reference:

K

Post in thread 'Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds'

Mar 18, 2026

Only if Iran had functional and capable Airforce like Pakistan and Turkey.

Niether the Pakistani or Turkish Air forces would be functional after 18 days of war against the combined strenght of the USAF,USN and the IAF.

• Kyussis

• 

 

[Ibbi32]

J-10 can do a lot more beyond lobbing PL-15s.

But currently thats all they do. Even if they can do something else they are best used for for lobbing pl-15s

 

[Blain2]

We were offered su-27s by russians since The 1992 but our government was too skeptical and committed to french relationship and the corruption involved in mirages. A shame because despite everything they couldve been incredibly valuable assets

I am glad PAF did not go with that and stuck with the F-16s and now JF-17s.

Sukhoi planes the world over are in a dire state in terms of readiness and spares.

They are an expensive platform to maintain and unlike the Mig-29 which was rudimentary but sturdy, they have a lot of maintenance challenges going by the experience of the various users.

In terms of the routine maintenance needed, F-16s beat them hands down in terms of MTBO, MTBF and other maintenance metrics. Indians tried to make the MKI customized. It ended up being an integration challenge and now entirely dependent on a Russian supply chain which itself is under a lot of duress.

Yes, they are a big launch platform and a bomb truck (latter has limited efficacy since the survivability of such a large aircraft is questionable over an active theater with the proliferation of VLRAAM), but as a stand-off weapons platform, it gives India some flexibility. However, Pakistan can do the same with its J-10 platforms.

 

[Sparten]

Each of the examples of provide on the private sector side - which to enable from a military production perspective.

What is the incentive for
1. Haier or PEL or even these higher end electronic “manufacturers” to participate in military contracts? Take your next door which has far more depth in this industry and struggled for so long to get its Private sector properly involved beyond rubber stamps

More business. You can provide incentives such as tax breaks. A guaranteed profit margin. On Indian, their biggest issue is their dysfunctional bureaucracy. That we need to avoid, perhaps by setting up an independent body to regulate and oversea defence contracts.

2. Introduce players into a security centric space where more often than not clearances and so on come into play - give you a case in point of two early UAV manufacturers which ended up with their employees background screened.

Thats a very valid point.

3. Contract preferences: for a private player to compete with GIDS it needs the ability to go beyond preset bids and contracts - today private players even supplying something as basic bandages end up in commissions and nepotism.

Oh absolutely. But we need to get beyond this hurdle. There really is no other option. Perhaps have a seperate purchase stream for mil-private products as opposed to civilian products that the military buys.

My experience is 2 years within the R&D space, 3 years selling equipment to the military and then beyond that having family that does millions in business with these folks ranging from SPD to FWO.

Guessed as much.

 

[Blain2]

But currently thats all they do. Even if they can do something else they are best used for for lobbing pl-15s

I think J-10C is capable of MR operations including precision attack. KD-88/YJ-91 are all stand-off strike weapons compatible with J-10Cs in our possession. We could add others.

 

[Ibbi32]

I am glad PAF did not go with that and stuck with the F-16s and now JF-17s.

Sukhoi planes the world over are in a dire state in terms of readiness and spares.

They are an expensive platform to maintain and unlike the Mig-29 which was rudimentary but sturdy, they have a lot of maintenance challenges going by the experience of the various users.

In terms of the routine maintenance needed, F-16s beat them hands down in terms of MTBO, MTBF and other maintenance metrics. Indians tried to make the MKI customized. It ended up being an integration challenge and now entirely dependent on a Russian supply chain which itself is under a lot of duress.

Yes, they are a big launch platform and a bomb truck (latter has limited efficacy since the survivability of such a large aircraft is questionable over an active theater with the proliferation of VLRAAM), but as a stand-off weapons platform, it gives India some flexibility. However, Pakistan can do the same with its J-10 platforms.

Brother in 1992 what was the state of our f-16 fleet? How many bvrs were we able to throw at the enemy? This is a debate not on the choice between f-16 and su-27 because undoubtedly despite all the the problems the f-16 was the right choice but in 1992 PAF was unable to procure more f-16s and was barred from m2k as well. Su-27 and mig29 was the only competitive 4th gen offered to Pakistan and came with actual bvr missiles. Sure they aren’t perfect but compared to us procuring 30 year old mirages and retrofitting them with added corruption on top. Instead something like flankers would be very useful in kargil and doing opfor for su-30s and they can be retrofitted with a range of heavy payloads. In hindsight it was a mistake to not go for flanker family

 

[Ibbi32]

I think J-10C is capable of MR operations including precision attack. KD-88/YJ-91 are all stand-off strike weapons compatible with J-10Cs in our possession. We could add others.

Yes but I don’t think in current numbers that will ever happen because most weapons j-10 uses can be used by jf-17s and limited number of j-10s with better kinematics and EW kits are more suited for air defence

 

[Blain2]

Yes but I don’t think in current numbers that will ever happen because most weapons j-10 uses can be used by jf-17s and limited number of j-10s with better kinematics and EW kits are more suited for air defence

It remains to be seen but I am of the opinion that PAF has not purchased the J-10s to only use for offensive air and escort roles. That is a waste of an asset.

 

[TsAr]

Bro, relax!
The picture being painted about 10th may is only what you can see. It is not necessarily as bad as you think it is.

The IAF had lost air superiority. They had reduced flying to bare minimum and decided to rely on ground launched BrahMos for most part. The PAF had opened wide air corridors in north and south after SEAD mission on S400s breaking alot of chains which were earlier limiting our freedom to operate - while the WAC bases of IAF remained silent as grave.

I know this stuff to be a fact because i had comrades sitting on Ops Consoles in C2 centers controlling the PAF fighters. And i have seen some of the stuff myself.

Now you can argue all you want about how come this advantage in the air could never be materialized into actual obvious meaningful damage on IAF bases for the satellites to show - I am all up and with you on this - maybe the underpar performance of munitions including Fatahs (except CM400s which did wonderful) or just restarint or whatever else - but frankly, the way IAF tucked tail and grounded their fleet for most part was one of the biggest achievements of PAF in this conflict - despite being 3x smaller force.

Having said that, yes there are alot of learnings where we seriously need work upon.

1. Robust anti-drone / LM solutions is the dire need. Our radar sites got lucky this time. However, Next time the indians may send massive waves in hundreds at a time and it will be one heck of challenge to 100% stop. A compromised ADGE will massively degrade PAF's capabilities.

2. We need to upgrade our offensive strike capabilities. I totally agree, we need munitions like the sort of SCALP, Hammer and BrahMos in large numbers. In addtion, the rocket command needs to play along well with their own toys.

3. Despite having nuetralized about half the BrahMos, we seriously need to improve our AD. India had brahMos in large numbers and hundreds more could seriously damage the PAF bases. Totally agreed.

4. Decoys and dispersal plans require a complete review and need to include some really smart moves. The bholari was a huge blunder.

Now the next conflict may totally be different with totally different strategies being employed. The IAF is already looking into acquiring even longer range weapons like LORA and stuff in addition to developing 800 km version of BrahMos - all while more units of S400 provide air defence cover against PAF - so perhaps shooting their planes won't be as easy as it was this time around - but i remember, people had doubts before 2019 - will our F16s be able to counter Su30s? - then after Rafales induction, how will we counter the Rafales and S400? - and now we have more doubts surrounding our heads. Yes valid points - but people ain't sleeping at AHQ. So relax.

I am sure they are looking into the underwhelming performance of Fatah system and will improve on it

 

[AeronautIR]

You don't want to discuss further, Ok. I respect that.
Moving to research topics.
Chinese A2AD against USA and Airpower in South Asia. - Are these two different topics of single one?

2 different topics.

 

[Hopefully Pessimistic]

I am sure they will try. Moving bases to Balochistan gives some reprieve but spreading the assets across main and forward bases will give more protection.

Second, in the run up to such a conflict, Pakistan too will have very many early warning capabilities and the usual practice is that if any threat is suspected to the air bases, the assets take flight. Second, launching hundreds of air to ground, or surface to surface missiles is not an easy task. You need countless platforms and ground based launchers. Not sure if India is exactly there and while India is preparing for such strikes, it is not easy to be not seen.

Our ADGE will have to be bolstered to address most of the ordnance. As you can see in both the first and second Iran wars, the vast majority of munitions are being countered by air defenses or air based assets. Pakistan will have to improvise and enhance too.

Decapitation strikes against leadership are another concern but this is a two way street. If Indians decide to go up this ladder, their leadership will be fair game and it will clearly be a full-blown war (instead of a limited strike).

I'm not sure if the comparison with Iran is entirely valid.

We don't get such an early detection advantage on either side in the SA theatre, perhaps India does to a degree in its Southern & Eastern regions. And I don't think we can hope to match Israeli interception rates as that means an extremely expensive stockpile of interceptor missiles.

 

[Blain2]

Brother in 1992 what was the state of our f-16 fleet? How many bvrs were we able to throw at the enemy? This is a debate not on the choice between f-16 and su-27 because undoubtedly despite all the the problems the f-16 was the right choice but in 1992 PAF was unable to procure more f-16s and was barred from m2k as well. Su-27 and mig29 was the only competitive 4th gen offered to Pakistan and came with actual bvr missiles. Sure they aren’t perfect but compared to us procuring 30 year old mirages and retrofitting them with added corruption on top. Instead something like flankers would be very useful in kargil and doing opfor for su-30s and they can be retrofitted with a range of heavy payloads. In hindsight it was a mistake to not go for flanker family

With the confidence of hindsight, even in 1999 Kargil conflict, PAF would have inflicted more losses on the IAF with our F-16s than they could have with their BVR equipped Mig-29s. We had potent AIM-9L equipped F-16s with head-on shot capability against their very rudimentary R-27s.

What is advertised vs. reality has to be studied. PAF pilots were training on counter-BVR tactics with the possibility of being pitted against BVR equipped Mig-29s in the late 80s when the VVS inducted Mig-29s in the Afghan theater.

I think whatever happens is for the best. Not having access to Su, Mig-29s, Mirages and additional F-16s paved the way for the JF-17 program and hopefully even better things in the future.