Pakistan Air Force | News & Discussions

[Princeps]

What did we lose in Murid?

just the building that was damaged had to be demolished due to structural damage according to sat imagery

 

[kimjongun]

They are far from the most valuable thing that could have been (and was) hit, I don't see why they can't be replaced. In cost terms the damage at Murid is likely greater.

Members have said said that damage at murid was not much and was significantly lesser @AeronautIR

 

[side-winder]

Members have said said that damage at murid was not much and was significantly lesser @AeronautIR

The building was an office HQ building - Not an Ops room - An HQ building has only admin offices with computers and orderly rooms used for handling routine correspondences and mails - and ofcourse the building was empty at the time.

The other place was an underground setup but the missile never penetrated the protective layers. No damage at all.

 

[AeronautIR]

Members have said said that damage at murid was not much and was significantly lesser @AeronautIR

I think it has been addressed already. The building was reconstructed after being demolished and it is a subjective debate now. Everyone will have a different opinion about the extent of damage.

 

[Ali_Baba]

The building was an office HQ building - Not an Ops room - An HQ building has only admin offices with computers and orderly rooms used for handling routine correspondences and mails - and ofcourse the building was empty at the time.

The other place was an underground setup but the missile never penetrated the protective layers. No damage at all.

We have seen how effective the Rampage, Rocks, and the Sparrow, LORA were against Iran in taking out Iranian Command bunkers repeatedly, and now that with India also purchasing those same systems from Israel, can we be sure that these protective layers will be enough for the new threats?

 

[Bratva]

The building was an office HQ building - Not an Ops room - An HQ building has only admin offices with computers and orderly rooms used for handling routine correspondences and mails - and ofcourse the building was empty at the time.

The other place was an underground setup but the missile never penetrated the protective layers. No damage at all.

We make fun of their airforce grounded for two days, but it shows they came prepared on 10th. They know where the mobile C&C, underground C&C were. Hangar & electric station of Shahbaz, precise runaway hits at Sargodha which martyred our radar tech and AEWC at bholari. was precisely hit as compare to our preparedness and intelligence regards to their assets. We were caught with pants down by not securing our critical assets and keeping them open air e.g mobile C&C and AEWC @ bholari.

 

[side-winder]

We make fun of their airforce grounded for two days, but it shows they came prepared on 10th. They know where the mobile C&C, underground C&C were. Hangar & electric station of Shahbaz, precise runaway hits at Sargodha which martyred our radar tech and AEWC at bholari. was precisely hit as compare to our preparedness and intelligence regards to their assets. We were caught with pants down by not securing our critical assets and keeping them open air e.g mobile C&C and AEWC @ bholari.

Except bholari. None of the hits was really worth even the cost of the munition itself - yes, it showed capability to hit precisely but none of them had any impact on the PAF operations and most would be repaired / have been repaired at expense of few thousand USDs compared to millions of USD of munitions itself.

The IAF had no control in the air - a couple sneak attacks doesn't prove anything -they very well know the reality of where they did actually stand in the whole conflict.

 

[Reichmarshal]

It's not just quality, but rather funding as well.

Raising squadron numbers is possible and might be related to Pakistan emerging as security provider and guaranteer for GCC/Iran region. The world has already seen the devastating effects it can cause on global economy.

My take on this is, in future we can expect Pakistan getting funding from GCC nations (barring the haramkhor emiratis) to setup, maintain and sustain offensive/defensive force.

Assets would be rotated in and out of Pakistan with China playing a large part in supplying the required weapons/packages.

If Pakistan gets the J-35s, it will have the sharpest spear out of anyone in south asia or GCC. That will be a big game changer as the nukes were.

This will help GCC wean off US security guarantees, and allow China to finally make inroads into the GCC region. (Chinese have already established and penetrated the west/japanese/korean dominated industrial sector so political/military seems next)

Funding can be arranged within days, but increasing AF sqd strength takes time

 

[rafale]

Funding can be arranged within days, but increasing AF sqd strength takes time

Yes you are right,
But i believe PAF will still be able to stand up new squadrons and convert existing ones faster than IAF.......provided funds are available.

 

[Xestan]

We make fun of their airforce grounded for two days, but it shows they came prepared on 10th. They know where the mobile C&C, underground C&C were. Hangar & electric station of Shahbaz, precise runaway hits at Sargodha which martyred our radar tech and AEWC at bholari. was precisely hit as compare to our preparedness and intelligence regards to their assets. We were caught with pants down by not securing our critical assets and keeping them open air e.g mobile C&C and AEWC @ bholari.

These are good points. IAF did demonstrate that they could hit targets from north to south without fear of any threat. I'm not sure what PAF's strategy was on 9th and 10th because if the IAF was flying away from our missile ranges and still hurling missiles at our bases, there has to be a solution to this. Of course you can deter this by having enough capability to target their bases but we lacked that in May conflict (the reason rocket force is seeing quick development).
PAF also lacks long range precision weapons like the Storm Shadow or Brahmos.

So, yes, PAF did well in the air-to-air combat, it still has an edge over the adversary there, but serious consideration is required to arm it to strike HVTs deep inside India.

 

[kimjongun]

 

[Ali_Baba]

PAF also lacks long range precision weapons like the Storm Shadow or Brahmos.

Brahmos proved to be "not that precise" in the conflict. However, I agree that PAF desperately lacks something as precise as the Storm Shadow. The strikes that took out the runways at Sargodha airbase were very significant decapitation strike that would have taken some hours for the runway to be fixed for full fighter jet operations. I am not sure if PAF has any cruise missiles that can be that precise ? Is any of the homegrown stuff that precise ?

Additionally, the fact that a cruise missile that was not supersonic, got that close to and was that effective at Sargodha was also significant as far as base defence of the most important airbase in Pakistan goes.

 

[Corax]

I think last May was a bit of a wake up call for the Pak military. For too long they had assumed no kinetic action over the border between the two states because of the nuclear factor, but the indians called their bluff on that front. They needed a bit of slap around the face as a wake up call. The formation of the rocket force has been the immediate reaction. They focused too much on defensive operations and not enough on deep strike offensive planning, like the indians did. As the tried and tested adage goes, offense is the best defence. In any future conflict, a swift, hard, decisive strike needs to be conducted to make it too painful for the indians. Moreover, perhaps they shouldn't wait until the indians initiate, act prospectively. We knew they were going to do something for a long time through ISR, seeing them build up forces. Next time, act on that before they do.

 

[rafale]

Brahmos proved to be "not that precise" in the conflict. However, I agree that PAF desperately lacks something as precise as the Storm Shadow. The strikes that took out the runways at Sargodha airbase were very significant decapitation strike that would have taken some hours for the runway to be fixed for full fighter jet operations. I am not sure if PAF has any cruise missiles that can be that precise ? Is any of the homegrown stuff that precise ?

Additionally, the fact that a cruise missile that was not supersonic, got that close to and was that effective at Sargodha was also significant as far as base defence of the most important airbase in Pakistan goes.

But there are pics of intercepted Storm Shadow? Right?

So i dont believe it is a threat....because if you used existing AD to shoot it down, you already have the solution. The problem is the less quantity of AD and hence the less coverage you have. Indians exploited those gaps.

Idealyl Brahmos and Storm Shadow need to be take much further out form the airbases. I think PAF/AD was waiting till the last moment to confirm the track (based on if spoofing/soft kill is working or not). In case of Sargodha/Bholari/Shahbaz that estimate or guesstimate was wrong.

So there is no two questions over AD.........need to increase funds and procurement for that and I believe some members did hint that additional HQ9 are being procured along with SHORADs.

 

[side-winder]

Brahmos proved to be "not that precise" in the conflict. However, I agree that PAF desperately lacks something as precise as the Storm Shadow. The strikes that took out the runways at Sargodha airbase were very significant decapitation strike that would have taken some hours for the runway to be fixed for full fighter jet operations. I am not sure if PAF has any cruise missiles that can be that precise ? Is any of the homegrown stuff that precise ?

Additionally, the fact that a cruise missile that was not supersonic, got that close to and was that effective at Sargodha was also significant as far as base defence of the most important airbase in Pakistan goes.

Sargodha runway were BrahMos launched from Surat Garh (same location where missiles for Rafiqui were launched from) not SCALP. SCALP got intercepted.