Pakistan has a Problem | Quwa Group - My Counter Thoughts

[Hybrid]

based off of wreckage pics i have collected. The hit number is likely larger- however ive got two intercepts/fails.

Can u post wreckage of it. That proves it fails.

 

[MS Sandhu]

The trajectory/flight profile is completely different.

You may want to add basic autopilot to carry out pre programmed maneuvers to better emulate the threat.

I think @farooqbhai actually hinted of something similar to Brahmos might be tested soon.
@arslank01 it's true that Pak will not be able to match the brahmos in numbers but few hundreds of SCM in our inventory may be quite valuable to join the Fatah-1&2 + Taimur / Raad combo.
Just like India's Brahmos+Rampage/Rudram+Scalp combo.

 

[Hybrid]

Totally agreed BuM was for local consumption and not a real military response. But the downing of 6 Indian fighter jets and the grounding of the Indian Air Force for two days (per their own admission) wasn’t a trivial matter. The Indians never used their Air Force after the initial battle and even by their own admission, fired their munitions on the 10th from extreme ranges.

Pakistan’s response was hampered by army dominated GHQ which turned a clear win on the 7th into an unnecessary mess.

Can you share the source claiming that the IAF was grounded for two days?
If the IAF was really grounded, why didn’t the PAF bomb Indian airbases at will?
Instead, they chose to launch ground-to-ground missiles while hiding inside civilian areas

 

[mythbuster]

Just finished watching the second episode.

Very good insight. Really appreciate the time taken to do the research and provide us with such great analysis that I just don't find anywhere else on YouTube.

Other analysts usually repeat the mantra that Pakistan is great, Pakistani military is great and Pakistan and it's military will always be great. That's somehow is supposed to be analysis. So this has been a welcome relief.

I prefer the analysis done by Quwa Group which hides our strengths and focusses on dealing with our shortcomings.

Thanks brothers Bilal, @arslank01 and Haseeb, @Quwa

By the way, which one of you brothers is Haseeb on this forum.

Is it really worth watching , I am intrigued.

 

[Bilal]

I think @farooqbhai actually hinted of something similar to Brahmos might be tested soon.
@arslank01 it's true that Pak will not be able to match the brahmos in numbers but few hundreds of SCM in our inventory may be quite valuable to join the Fatah-1&2 + Taimur / Raad combo.
Just like India's Brahmos+Rampage/Rudram+Scalp combo.

He pointed to the full blown system, that’s the offensive capability we are building.

We also need a (high) supersonic target to validate our AD systems and train our troops.

 

[Waz]

Can you share the source claiming that the IAF was grounded for two days?
If the IAF was really grounded, why didn’t the PAF bomb Indian airbases at will?
Instead, they chose to launch ground-to-ground missiles while hiding inside civilian areas

It's been put up in the the thread dedicated to the war .

 

[Hybrid]

T

Then why didn't you. You had the opportunity

The goals is not to destroy PAF. the goal is show them we can.
No one is stopping us destroy every single bunkers.. Insterd of 1 or 2

 

[Yasser76]

T
The goals is not to destroy PAF. the goal is show them we can.
No one is stopping us destroy every single bunkers.. Insterd of 1 or 2

You should have carried on, at the rate of 6 planes downed in a day, IAF would have ceased to exist in 3 months.

 

[Great Mal]

The issue is, and im sure @Quwa and @JamD will agree, but, we have not even scratched the surface, while on the forums, the situation looks all well and good, the reality is, there is significant failings in the 'system'.

While we could sit there and talk about xyz planes intercepted- what benefit does this bring to the discussion? The idea is not to sit there and praise babar etc for shooting down a couple of planes, because in the grand scheme of things, this isnt really very meaningful. This is their job and aircraft losses are expected.

I cant see many other 'successes' from the strikes. BuM was very much an optics driven attack, to feed the thirst of the locals for revenge, there was no meaningful results from the strike and beyond anything, it exposed even further shortfalls in their operational capabilities- but otoh, it was a very limited, hands tied behind the back kind of deal so i guess theres that too.

The thing is, and i cant speak for the others, but i dont find it particularly relevant in the overall picture that the IAF lost a few planes. What we find is this uncovers a real deeper issue, the Indians have *thousands* of BrahMos, if this had broken into a full scale war, i genuinely believe there wouldnt have been any recovering, it would have meant a significant blow to Pakistan. The other aspect which has come to light is effectively, at this point in time, India is able to strike deep, deep in Pakistan, the Idea was that airbases far west are safe- they're not. This changes the entire psychology of the forces, the realisation that nothing is safe is not a small one, it sets a very somber mood. The Indians can effectively retaliate to whatever they want, strike Pakistan far and deep and what they've realised is Pakistan either wont respond, or just give a half arsed, optics driven response to feed the local pop. This is the biggest takeway.

The Podcast is a reality check & a good view beyond the echo chambers of false victories we have built over the years starting from Siachen to some other skirmishes.

@Quwa keep doing what you do, and highlight the importance of self assessment can't keep living in the boomer generational mindset with PTV home type shows on defense.

Next podcasts should be on the war on terror & the mistakes & loopholes we haven't plugged.

 

[Waz]

T
The goals is not to destroy PAF. the goal is show them we can.
No one is stopping us destroy every single bunkers.. Insterd of 1 or 2

A number of your munitions were stopped, and yes you tried you very best to destroy air force assets.
The difference is yours were destroyed, and many more could have gone down.

 

[SoulSpokesman]

@Hybrid

If the IAF was really grounded, why didn’t the PAF bomb Indian airbases at will?

Simple. ADS. Not just S400 but also a number of other systems- Barak, Akash etc. To bomb Indian airbases they would have to come into Indian airspace where they would be vulnerable to the various ADS systems that IND has.

Regards

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

Is it really worth watching , I am intrigued.

I would highly recommend it. Well worth watching or actually listening to it.

 

[SoulSpokesman]

The real issue from Pak side is working capital. Not enough of practically everything-missiles, drones, bombs, even basic stuff like jet fuel, lubes and spares. Not because of any incompetence or lack of planning by Pak military top brass- which is excellent- but simple lack of economic muscle to back up such stock.

The previous COAS Mir Bajwa had pointed out as much.

Regards

@Bratva @arslank01 @Rationalist @mythbuster

 

[Hybrid]

It's been put up in the the thread dedicated to the war .

As per ISPR, it was an A2G missile that hit initial PAF bases on the night of the 9th. Then who was launching these missiles?
If the IAF was grounded for two days, then the PAF should have freely dominated the skies for those two days. But I didn’t see the PAF doing anything on the 9th or 10th of May.

 

[Pakistan Space Agency]

The issue is, and im sure @Quwa and @JamD will agree, but, we have not even scratched the surface, while on the forums, the situation looks all well and good, the reality is, there is significant failings in the 'system'. ...

Ah yes, so brother Haseeb is @JamD.

I had been hoping that @JamD and @Oscar would be on the podcast with you and Bilal.