Pakistani People Fed Up with rises prices under Maryem Nawaz Punjab Government

[PK781]

I have long argued - to no avail - that having achieved credible nuclear deterrence, Pakistan had a golden opportunity to plow everything else it had into social development: education, health, infrastructure.

But we failed to do that. And here we are.

with the never-ending corruptions ongoing.......expect to be here in few more decades too......just with a more severely decimated lower middle and below the poverty line masses.......while the rich elite buy their condos in Dubai towers and buy some houses and flats in london, washington, toronto and elsewhere.

there seems to be no plan to fix the lives of the poor and lower middle class. Can the elites survive on their own when everyone else is dead already

 

[VCheng]

with the never-ending corruptions ongoing.......expect to be here in few more decades too......just with a more severely decimated lower middle and below the poverty line masses.......while the rich elite buy their condos in Dubai towers and buy some houses and flats in london, washington, toronto and elsewhere.

there seems to be no plan to fix the lives of the poor and lower middle class. Can the elites survive on their own when everyone else is dead already

These are only some of the consequences of the decisions that we choose to make. FAFO.

 

[Blain2]

I have long argued - to no avail - that having achieved credible nuclear deterrence, Pakistan had a golden opportunity to plow everything else it had into social development: education, health, infrastructure.

But we failed to do that. And here we are.

The last three Kashmir conflicts have shown that conventional readiness cannot be ignored and under invested in just because there is a credible nuclear deterrence. Same goes for the Ukraine-Russian war.

 

[SaadH]

I am a memon with parents from Karachi.

Let me tell you what is happening within the memon elites in Karachi. They are reducing their footprint in Pakistan and a few of them have set up shop in UAE. Some have formed partnerships to become developers and raking in a good sum.

The others, are quietly investing in units in Dubai, Sharjah, Ajman and relying on passive income.

Apart from that, alot of them are thriving in trading and services business.

In short, the avenues of investments within Pakistan has thinned out. Call it red tape, political stability, economic factors, monopolistic behavior, trimming of purchasing power.

If Pakistan can correct its short comings, there are billions of dollars waiting to be deployed.

Memon community has been divesting from Karachi for decades now, largely due to GHQ sponsored thugs of MQM and their bhatta khori and now PPP and their notorious mismanagement and corruption. I know many who've moved their business to places like Bangladesh and Thailand.

 

[SaadH]

@Olympus81

I am a memon with parents from Karachi.

Lot of Memon businesses in Bombay, Gujarat too. Maybe you can encourage your kinsmen to invest in India too.

Regards

They have all due to GHQ A team MQM...

 

[VCheng]

The last three Kashmir conflicts have shown that conventional readiness cannot be ignored and under invested in just because there is a credible nuclear deterrence. Same goes for the Ukraine-Russian war.

If that is true, then one could look at that situation as an admission that getting and maintaining nuclear weapons did not offer any security either.

As always, it is economic and social development that offers long term survival and security, and not anything else.

 

[hydrabadi_arab]

I am not a fan of the IMF but I will tell you that our problem is not that IMF cannot provide relief. Our issue is that we are not willing to take the pain to deliver long term relief. No government feels it is in their interest to go fully on-board with the IMF. Thus IMF program number 23. Why are we in this god damned program 23 times (including PTI and all others, no exceptions!)?

If IMF will fundamentally not work for Pakistan then why go back to them? The reality is that it is the only play left on the market for Pakistan. So swallow a bitter pill and implement the program entirely. Unfortunately no government has the grit to do that.

The problem with IMF is they demand revenue but don't force on how that revenue is generated. Hence the rent seeking elite isn't willing to do reforms that will hurt their interests, so easy way out is devaluation of currency which result in inflation.

Another problem with country that goes to IMF every few years is lack of foreign investors trust.

 

[Pakistanithinktank]

Pakistan Ulema Council Set to Condemn Economic Crisis and Inflation as Poor Struggle for Basic Needs, Government and Establishment Urged to Provide Relief. However, Authorities Have Reportedly Warned the Council Against Issuing Statements or Fatwas on the Matter.

 

[Blain2]

The problem with IMF is they demand revenue but don't force on how that revenue is generated. Hence the rent seeking elite isn't willing to do reforms that will hurt their interests, so easy way out is devaluation of currency which result in inflation.

Another problem with country that goes to IMF every few years is lack of foreign investors trust.

The foreign investors don't come in because they don't see the government sticking to an IMF plan. That leads to loss of confidence for the investor in our economic outlook because they are unsure of returns on their investments.

 

[VCheng]

The problem with IMF is they demand revenue but don't force on how that revenue is generated. Hence the rent seeking elite isn't willing to do reforms that will hurt their interests, so easy way out is devaluation of currency which result in inflation.

Another problem with country that goes to IMF every few years is lack of foreign investors trust.

The IMF plan is designed to balance the books, nothing more, and nothing less.

It is up to the country to decide how it wants to achieve that balance. If it does not choose to do what is needed to be done, then it is 100% their own fault, and blaming the IMF is utterly dishonest and pointless.

 

[Blain2]

If that is true, then one could look at that situation as an admission that getting and maintaining nuclear weapons did not offer any security either.

As always, it is economic and social development that offers long term survival and security, and not anything else.

That isn't the right way to look at it. Nuclear weapons are the ultimate guarantor of survival against annihilation.
There are stages of conflict where the conventional or strategic capabilities may have more or less efficacy.
What nuclear weapons offer to Pakistan is a "NEVER AGAIN" insurance against another East Pakistan like episode.
For border conflicts etc., we have to maintain a robust conventional capability.

There would be no disagreement that a strong economy ensures a strong defense, however, very few countries in the world have the luxury of not having to bother with national defense. Specially when you live in a region where your next door neighbor has hegemonist tendencies.

 

[Jango]

If that is true, then one could look at that situation as an admission that getting and maintaining nuclear weapons did not offer any security either.

As always, it is economic and social development that offers long term survival and security, and not anything else.

Don't think it's quite a zero sum game as that.

Short and quick conflicts for one reason or another are still to be expected and can never be eliminated. What the nuclear capability does is make everyone think twice before raising the stakes, as was seen in the recent conflict.

Both have their own place.

Coming on to the larger point though, our military prepardness is not the reason for our economic struggles or current state. You can definitely say the military is a reason, but not operational readiness to combat the threats you're faced.

 

[VCheng]

That isn't the right way to look at it. Nuclear weapons are the ultimate guarantor of survival against annihilation.
There are stages of conflict where the conventional or strategic capabilities may have more or less efficacy.
What nuclear weapons offer to Pakistan is a "NEVER AGAIN" capability against another East Pakistan like episode.
For border conflicts etc., we have to maintain a robust conventional capability.

There would be no disagreement that a strong economy ensures a strong defense, however, very few countries in the world have the luxury of not having to bother with national defense. Specially when you live in a region where your next door neighbor has hegemonist tendencies.

Having nuclear weapons merely ensures that warfare simply moves to other domains, particularly economic. USSR is an example that Pakistan can ignore only to its own peril given its own situation.

I am not arguing against national defense; I am merely noting that placing defense needs above all else becomes a losing game in the long term, as we can see.

 

[VCheng]

Don't think it's quite a zero sum game as that.

Short and quick conflicts for one reason or another are still to be expected and can never be eliminated. What the nuclear capability does is make everyone think twice before raising the stakes, as was seen in the recent conflict.

Both have their own place.

Coming on to the larger point though, our military prepardness is not the reason for our economic struggles or current state. You can definitely say the military is a reason, but not operational readiness to combat the threats you're faced.

Please see my reply above, thanks.

 

[Blain2]

Having nuclear weapons merely ensures that warfare simply moves to other domains, particularly economic. USSR is an example that Pakistan can ignore only to its own peril given its own situation.

I am not arguing against national defense; I am merely noting that placing defense needs above all else becomes a losing game in the long term, as we can see.

I would argue Pakistan's economic malaise is not because of defense spending. We spend almost 2.5X more than defense on retirement of debt related to public expenditures.
Pakistan spends less than 3% on national defense compared to many other countries with much higher spending on defense, yet they are managing their economy fairly well (case in point: Israel, Saudi Arabia etc.).
Pakistan can manage both but it requires painful adjustments to be made in the short to medium term. This is not a zero-sum game for Pakistan.