Pakistan's Airborne Early Warning and Control Aircrafts

MS Sandhu said:
Why PAF is retiring all of its ZDK03 fleet?
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i dont see PAF retiring these aircraft !! They have value in themselves as redundant/replacement platforms for operational use. There will be a high attrition of these assets in an airwar ggiven the long range SAMS(S400s) and BVR platforms that India posses and the EW/Jamming that India can not bring to the table now - some which can be mitigated by having more sensors in the air in different locations. The existing airfrmes bring their own value by their sheer presence.

We are talking about an airforce that is STILL operating Mirages bought in the 60's !!!!!!!! So the premise that it will retire such a young airframe makes no sense ...
 
Ali_Baba said:
i dont see PAF retiring these aircraft !! They have value in themselves as redundant/replacement platforms for operational use. There will be a high attrition of these assets in an airwar ggiven the long range SAMS(S400s) and BVR platforms that India posses and the EW/Jamming that India can not bring to the table now - some which can be mitigated by having more sensors in the air in different locations. The existing airfrmes bring their own value by their sheer presence.

We are talking about an airforce that is STILL operating Mirages bought in the 60's !!!!!!!! So the premise that it will retire such a young airframe makes no sense ...
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To be fair, the PAF was operating the Mirages for this long because the appropriate replacement platform was never available to the PAF, either due to cost or inaccessibility.

For example, had the PAF been able to fully complete the F-16 program (110 F-16A/Bs and 50 F-16C/Ds) and induct a few SOWs with them (e.g., Harpoon ASCM, JSOW, etc) the Mirages would've been gone a long time ago. Alternatively, if the PAF had the money for the M2K-5 or Tornado, it could have readily replaced the Mirages. Now, with the JF-17s taking on SOW deployment and J-10CEs forming up the air-to-air capability, we'll likely see the Mirages out.

There are times when you get addition by subtraction, the ZDK03 may be one of those situations. The performance isn't up to where the PAF needs it to be and the Y-8F600 platform is eating maintenance resources that can be better placed elsewhere.

Also - unlike the Mirages until recently - the PAF also has ample replacement options for the ZDK03. It can pursue the Saab Erieye-ER or, alternatively, build an in-house AEW&C (Pakistan has a domestic S-band AESA radar program). The money you save from retiring the ZDK03s can start going towards one of those programs.
 
Quwa said:
To be fair, the PAF was operating the Mirages for this long because the appropriate replacement platform was never available to the PAF, either due to cost or inaccessibility.

For example, had the PAF been able to fully complete the F-16 program (110 F-16A/Bs and 50 F-16C/Ds) and induct a few SOWs with them (e.g., Harpoon ASCM, JSOW, etc) the Mirages would've been gone a long time ago. Alternatively, if the PAF had the money for the M2K-5 or Tornado, it could have readily replaced the Mirages. Now, with the JF-17s taking on SOW deployment and J-10CEs forming up the air-to-air capability, we'll likely see the Mirages out.

There are times when you get addition by subtraction, the ZDK03 may be one of those situations. The performance isn't up to where the PAF needs it to be and the Y-8F600 platform is eating maintenance resources that can be better placed elsewhere.

Also - unlike the Mirages until recently - the PAF also has ample replacement options for the ZDK03. It can pursue the Saab Erieye-ER or, alternatively, build an in-house AEW&C (Pakistan has a domestic S-band AESA radar program). The money you save from retiring the ZDK03s can start going towards one of those programs.
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Will Erieye be able to communicate with J-10C?
 
Quwa said:
To be fair, the PAF was operating the Mirages for this long because the appropriate replacement platform was never available to the PAF, either due to cost or inaccessibility.

For example, had the PAF been able to fully complete the F-16 program (110 F-16A/Bs and 50 F-16C/Ds) and induct a few SOWs with them (e.g., Harpoon ASCM, JSOW, etc) the Mirages would've been gone a long time ago. Alternatively, if the PAF had the money for the M2K-5 or Tornado, it could have readily replaced the Mirages. Now, with the JF-17s taking on SOW deployment and J-10CEs forming up the air-to-air capability, we'll likely see the Mirages out.

There are times when you get addition by subtraction, the ZDK03 may be one of those situations. The performance isn't up to where the PAF needs it to be and the Y-8F600 platform is eating maintenance resources that can be better placed elsewhere.

Also - unlike the Mirages until recently - the PAF also has ample replacement options for the ZDK03. It can pursue the Saab Erieye-ER or, alternatively, build an in-house AEW&C (Pakistan has a domestic S-band AESA radar program). The money you save from retiring the ZDK03s can start going towards one of those programs.
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Fair -and logical. Time will tell.

I personally dont see the platform being retired or replaced anytime soon. We are talking about 4 platforms, that were inducted some 10years ago - quite young from a maintenance perspective and it is for 4 units only.

Let's see - i am big enough to say i am wrong if it turns out they do but to - logically - makes no sense the more i think about it. Imho - they are more likely to get upgraded to the Chinese KJ-500 Airborne Early Warning and Control System (AEW&C) standard, then get retired!
 
Ali_Baba said:
Fair -and logical. Time will tell.

I personally dont see the platform being retired or replaced anytime soon. We are talking about 4 platforms, that were inducted some 10years ago - quite young from a maintenance perspective and it is for 4 units only.

Let's see - i am big enough to say i am wrong if it turns out they do but to - logically - makes no sense the more i think about it. Imho - they are more likely to get upgraded to the Chinese KJ-500 Airborne Early Warning and Control System (AEW&C) standard, then get retired!
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It'd depend on whether the cost of upgrading them is genuinely less than buying a net-new system. In most cases, the bulk of the cost is the radar. OTOH the aircraft can be had for relatively little, especially if it's a used commercial airframe.
 
Quwa said:
It'd depend on whether the cost of upgrading them is genuinely less than buying a net-new system. I think the PAF prefers using the Saab 2000 - and, later, possibly Bombardier Global Express 6000 - than the Y-8F600.
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The Bombardier Global Express 6000 will come into the picture for the HAVASOJ for sure.
 
Quwa said:
It'd depend on whether the cost of upgrading them is genuinely less than buying a net-new system. In most cases, the bulk of the cost is the radar. OTOH the aircraft can be had for relatively little, especially if it's a used commercial airframe.
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Considering the H-6 was retired within a year of operations by the PAF. There is precedent to shove things out if they really dont work as expected. One can mush for the zdk gift.

Regardless, it may actually be a good way to gift that platform to an ally that cannot afford a AEW platform.
 
Oscar said:
Considering the H-6 was retired within a year of operations by the PAF. There is precedent to shove things out if they really dont work as expected. One can mush for the zdk gift.

Regardless, it may actually be a good way to gift that platform to an ally that cannot afford a AEW platform.
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Hahahaa JF17+ZDK for Argentina ;)
 
silicon0000 said:
Hahahaa JF17+ZDK for Argentina ;)
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tbh, I think setting up a quasi-national air guard system with reserve JF-17 Block-Is and ZDK03s can be an interesting move. It'd be similar to what the PN does with the MSA in that it would be under the PAF's command. However, this could be a good place to send officers who couldn't advance further but still contribute, perhaps in a part-time function.
 
I think this news is a smoke screen. Don't want to get air posts involved in verifying this as it seems like a dead news. Remember, KE has recently been upgraded in china. in my opinion KE will continue to be operated for some time.
 
Oscar said:
Argentina is lost - the new government is fully in the US camp and therefore is not going to allow any further Chinese involvement.

There may be potential in Africa
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I know dear. It's just for making mood light. 😇
 
it would be nice to develop an inhouse AEW&C in the future with possibly a friendly nation. actually definitely with a friendly nation.
 
Path-Finder said:
it would be nice to develop an inhouse AEW&C in the future with possibly a friendly nation. actually definitely with a friendly nation.
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Turkiye or China would be option but its takes lots of time to develop AWACS from scratch
 
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