Pakistan's Airborne Early Warning and Control Aircrafts

[Yasser76]

There maybe little value in the sensor on a plane, looking down due to "clutter issues". But - how does it perform against a clean sky(clouds included). If that performance is ok - then there is value ? How would the sensor function as a ground based radar. And is this not the sort of stuff that NASTP can look at ?

I am really not sure, but just assuming there may be issues. I know someone mentioned the most important being networking. Unsure just how PAF manages to produce a "Link-17" or "Link Green" system that seemlesly and quicklly passes on information between European, US and Chinese platforms.

 

[FuturePAF]

whats the range difference between a kj500 and saab ER awacs?

Based on reputable references I could find:

550 km for the Erieye-ER

The primary sensor of the GlobalEye is its Erieye ER airborne early warning (AEW) radar; weighing approximately 1 tonne, it is mounted atop the twinjet's fuselage.[7] Saab has cited up to 450 km (216 nm) range for the AEW radar system when flown at an operating altitude of 30,000 ft;[14] and 550 km at 35,000 ft[15] in comparison with earlier versions of the Erieye radar, Saab claims it has achieved a 70% increase in detection range, achieved via the use of new technology, such as gallium nitride transmit/receive modules.

source:

Saab has sky-high sales hopes for GlobalEye

Saab is poised to start ground-test activities with its first GlobalEye surveillance aircraft, having unveiled the heavily-adapted Bombardier Global 6000 for launch customer the United Arab Emirates.

www.flightglobal.com

While the KJ-500 has 3 panels of an AESA radar with a range of 470 km.

KJ-500 features a new AESA-type radar. In contrast to the Pakistani aircraft, which has a rotodome, the KJ-500’s radar uses three AESA antennas arranged in a triangular configuration to provide 360-degree coverage, as in the larger KJ-2000. The radar is allegedly a product of the No. 38 Institute.

According to Chinese sources, it has the range of up to 470km and can track up to 100 targets

Source:https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...et-of-radar-planes-and-the-strategy-behind-it

Source:https://aviation.report/articles/chinas-kj-500-airborne-early-warning-aircraft#

Considering the danger of over relying on one provider, particularly a western one that could be compromised through espionage, IMHO, retaining a Chinese origin platform makes sense, but hopefully if we can get that range up to 600–650km.

Btw, the PAF only paid $278 million for the 4 ZDK-03 ($69.5 million a piece). It would be unreasonable to expect Erieye performance, which was recently procured for $95 Million (36% more expensive).

In its annual yearbook for 2017-2018, the Pakistan Ministry of Defence Production (MoDP) confirmed that the Pakistan Air Force (PAF) took delivery of its sixth Saab 2000-based Erieye airborne early warning and control (AEW&C) aircraft. The Directorate General of Defence Purchase (DGDP) ordered the sixth Erieye AEW&C from Saab for $94.95 million US in 2017-2018.

It seems this aircraft was a testbed only and was evolved further into two separate types, one of them being the ZDK-03 (also known as Y-8P) for the Pakistan Air Force (PAF). This switched to the improved Category III platform including new WJ-6C turboprops. Altogether, four examples were ordered by Pakistan under a $278 million contract, and all were delivered between December 2011 and February 2015. These aircraft’s roles include acting as an airborne C2 center for the PAF’s JF-17 Thunder fighter jets.

 

[HRK]

There is NO confirmation from either Saab or PAF, that they are getting the ER version !!!! Only that the tail fin is slightly different on the latest one. Nothing else ...

We are aware that PAF in 2018 or 2019 had issued a tender for upgrade of Arial Radar with GaN based TR modules with the drawing and dimensions give in that tender was similar to the Erieye radar.

So I think it's logical not to ignore the possiblity of upgrade of legacy Erieye Radars if that tender was executed

 

[ghazi52]

What is the purpose of creating Air Eagle ( Private ) Limited?

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Ali Yusuf]

I was able to visually verify:

• 3 Batch-I Erieye (originals)
• 3 Batch-II Erieye (2017 order)
• 1 Batch-III Erieye (2023 delivery)

Can you kindly share the serial numbers of the platforms you have visually verified?

Thanks

 

[CSAW]

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

PAF officially reveals it plans to modify its Global-6000 as an EW platform with likely chances of pursuing Turkish HAVA SOJ program.

Also various ground based EADS have been inducted to form a robust EW spectrum which means IAF will encounter even more chaos in future wars.

 

[corven]

What is very strange is that China is the world's largest producer of gallium nitride and gallium arsenide. The TR unit of the early warning aircraft sold to Pakistan is not gallium nitride?

 

[FuturePAF]

What is very strange is that China is the world's largest producer of gallium nitride and gallium arsenide. The TR unit of the early warning aircraft sold to Pakistan is not gallium nitride?

Pakistan probably bought what was on the market at the time. Better to upgrade the radar than retire the entire aircraft. Maintaining interoperability with Chinese made equipment is also very important.

The PAF should look at the full suite of capabilities on other modern AWACS and go to town on an upgrade. A Upgraded ZDK with an east that could see to around 470-550 km out could operate in the North Arabian Sea and share data with PN (and PLAN) ships in the region. Helping cargo ships avoid pirates for example, or confirming sensor returns form other platforms. If the Chinese build an air strip in Djibouti, PAF awacs could possibly land there and use it to monitor Indian naval traffic from unexpected directions.

 

[Princeps]

I guess here's the confirmation. @Ali_Baba we will have to concede this one.

 

[Ali_Baba]

View attachment 11807


I guess here's the confirmation. @Ali_Baba we will have to concede this one.

I take that as official and i still think it is CRAZY !!!

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

Pakistan Air Force Multi Domain Command and Control System has integrated HQ-9BE, HQ-16FE, YLC-8E, CIWS and Horizon-7 SAAB 2000 AEW into its Integrated Air Defence System under the leadership of current PAF Command.

 

[corven]

I'm still a little weirded out. The J10C exported to Pakistan is equipped with A-launch and B-guided functions, but this function requires the support of the early warning aircraft data link. China's KJ-500 is a digital array phased array radar, and it is a three-sided array. Perhaps the standard cost of upgrading the ZDK-03 to the KJ-500 would be very high, so Pakistan gave up this approach.

 

[Ali Yusuf]

Based on reputable references I could find:

550 km for the Erieye-ER

source:

Saab has sky-high sales hopes for GlobalEye

Saab is poised to start ground-test activities with its first GlobalEye surveillance aircraft, having unveiled the heavily-adapted Bombardier Global 6000 for launch customer the United Arab Emirates.

www.flightglobal.com

While the KJ-500 has 3 panels of an AESA radar with a range of 470 km.




Source:https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zo...et-of-radar-planes-and-the-strategy-behind-it

Source:https://aviation.report/articles/chinas-kj-500-airborne-early-warning-aircraft#

Considering the danger of over relying on one provider, particularly a western one that could be compromised through espionage, IMHO, retaining a Chinese origin platform makes sense, but hopefully if we can get that range up to 600–650km.

Btw, the PAF only paid $278 million for the 4 ZDK-03 ($69.5 million a piece). It would be unreasonable to expect Erieye performance, which was recently procured for $95 Million (36% more expensive).

So if we get the EriEye-ER and mount them on the Saab-2000, whose ceiling is around 31K feet, what sort of range will we get from it? Given that the extended range is achieved not below 35K feet?

@HRK @Quwa

 

[FuturePAF]

So if we get the EriEye-ER and mount them on the Saab-2000, whose ceiling is around 31K feet, what sort of range will we get from it? Given that the extended range is achieved not below 35K feet?

@HRK @Quwa

Probably the same 470 km, as it’s a function of the horizon. But the “picture” will be sharper within that 470 km range, especially against stealth targets. Flown higher up, suppose above the state 35k, (max altitude with MTOW is 41k, and absolute max is 51k) the radar horizon is extended much further. This is not the max it sees, but the furthest it sees at the horizon, it see further but higher up. If Saabs data for the Saab 2000 Erieye at 31k feet is 470 km, the multiple the following numbers by roughly 1.353

31k (215.8 miles or 347.3 km) x 1.353 = 470 km
35k (229.3 miles or 369 km) x 1.353 = ~500 km
41k (248.miles or 399.1 km) x 1.353 = 540 km

(The KJ-500 probably flys around 42k feet to achieve 550 km range for its radar)

51k (276.9 miles or 445.6 km) x 1.353 = ~ 600 km

So it’s possible to squeeze out another 70-130 km by switching to the Global 6000 and flying it up as high as possible, but at the end of the day, the limitations based on the horizon will keep it close to about the same. The GaN Erieye will see a sharper image.

The Saab 2000 top off at 31k feet, as the service ceiling.

Saab 2000 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Perhaps if the current Erieye radar are placed on global 6000 jets, they may be able to see further, but will the cost be worth it consider the PAF’s other budgetary requirements.

So I assume with the Erieye-ER radar on a Global 6000, the plane will fly around 51k feet and see out to 600 km (445 km at the horizon)

Distance to the Horizon Calculator

Bombardier Global Express - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org