PTI news, updates and discussions part ll

[HAIDER]

must watch how Pakistani leader show the excellent gesture of slavery to grade 20 US govt employee..

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@Goenitz

 

[LC150]

Depends on how one defines deal.

He will lose majority of his support base if he makes a deal. A deal in this context means, IK accepts establishment supra constitutional role. And IK allows himself to be another Zardari and Sharif.

On the other hand, if he comes out of jail absolving himself of all cooked up charges and is free to lead PTI and contest elections, while he tones down his rhetoric against the boys. That may work.

Interesting thing is, unlike his predecessors he ain’t making a deal and the boys are completely naked in the eyes of the public this time. So IK knows he has leverage, to an extent.

correct

the only reason he has massive support across sectors of society is because he isnt bending down the to criminal mafia running the state.

some people say so what?

the difference is now every one know what Pakistan's real problem... or the problem maker is... from the hordes of Afghans to non stop terrorism there was only institution behind all of this.

 

[PakAl]

Imran Khan is now being given space on the media?

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[Goenitz]

the only reason he has massive support across sectors of society is because he isnt bending down the to criminal mafia running the state.

Our military setup, directly or indirectly, has never let any hero to rise. Every hero is either corrupt or traitor or of loose character.

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Our scientists, economists, philanthropists, politicians, bureaucrats, businessmen, etc., are all corrupt, and heroes are only military men.

 

[Pakistanithinktank]

Our military setup, directly or indirectly, has never let any hero to rise. Every hero is either corrupt or traitor or of loose character.

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Our scientists, economists, philanthropists, politicians, bureaucrats, businessmen, etc., are all corrupt, and heroes are only military men.

Be creative in your imagination….

 

[Goenitz]

i beg to differ, one positive and negative aspect of Imran's personality is that he does what ever the heck he thinks, he seldom consider anyone's input prime example being Bajwa along with several other party members constantly gave him input on Buzdar but he remain adamant

Let's continue here.

Essentially, it is the outcome of his mandate acceptance, even after some seats were taken from PTI to form an absolute majority. Khawaja Asif himself said how he got his seat.

IK didn't want to appoint between Aleem Khan (Bajwa's choice) and Jahangeer (he has some MPAs in his pocket). So, he appointed Buzdar to directly control Punjab. His opposition blamed that to his wife.

On one hand, he is the PM. He can do whatever he wants under the constitution, even revealing the cypher.
On the other hand, he should have taken the GHQ recommendations on some international issue.

BTW I forgot, IK didn't meet the CIA chief also due to GHQ recommendation. That was one of his biggest mistakes.

 

[Jango007]

When you have dirty filthy dogs like Wadhwa licking his army boss’s butt this is what we get …… in Karachi I remember word commonly used to describe him and his boss …. chootias ….

فیلڈ مارشل عاصم منیر نے معاہدے کا مسودہ تیار کرکے ٹائپ بھی خود کیا: فیصل واوڈا

فیصل واوڈا نے کہا کہ فیلڈ مارشل سیدعاصم منیر نے امریکا ایران معاہدہ کا ڈرافٹ خود تیار کیا اور اسے اپنے لیپ ٹاپ پر ٹائپ بھی خود کیا۔

jang.com.pk

 

[Jango007]

Attended dinner for Namal fund raising …. People went crazy over an old video of Ik that was played …. Donation goal was met in 30 min .

He has the draw and power no human today exerts over the crowd ….. absolutely every single person I met was giving lanat to Asim Munir and Mian saanp ….

 

[Jango007]

I was offered $20000 for the bat signed by IK . I told the organizer even at $2 million I won’t part with it.

 

[Goenitz]

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[Oscar]

Our military setup, directly or indirectly, has never let any hero to rise. Every hero is either corrupt or traitor or of loose character.

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Our scientists, economists, philanthropists, politicians, bureaucrats, businessmen, etc., are all corrupt, and heroes are only military men.

This would be partially true.
If you do not disagree with them or exceed their "worth" then you are a celebrated hero.

Edhi is celebrated.
Dr Salam is
Dr Ruth is
and so on.

Anything crossing those two boundaries is what makes your statement true which you generalized and oddly self satisfied your cultism by creating the absolute enemy.

Which at the end wont ever solve the problem because you are Pakistani and therefore suffer the same flaws out of uniform and might engage in the same.

The only difference is that you might be held accountable, they are very rarely held accountable. If you only answer to that is "all military bad" then you are basically proving a mirror image of your own accusation against the military.

 

[Oscar]

I was offered $20000 for the bat signed by IK . I told the organizer even at $2 million I won’t part with it.

I would have bargained and taken more and given part to charity , maybe a school or hospital.... but I suppose that 2 million is better because good old biradari in action?
Mera sardar, meri zaat, mera Imran Khan..

not invested in an idea but a man.. this is why EVERY movement fails because this good old centuries old devotion to the person and not the idea..

meanwhile the man who supposedly talks to Riyasat e Medina has followers who think of status acts... I am the most devoted. My honor and identity is tied to this man.

This is precisely how Pakistan has reset to zero after every "movement" in its history. Bhuttoism died with Bhutto. Ayub's "decade of development" died with Ayub. The idea was never bigger than the person because the person was always the idea.

Every hour spent valorizing a signed bat is an hour not spent asking:
why did the movement fail structurally?
What institutions were built?
What changed in the land ownership laws, the braderi courts and mentality, the madrassa curriculum?
Was even a single corrupt individual prosected? Did the military get in line?

The answer to all of those is: nothing.

Because the movement was always about the man, not the mechanism.

The messiah fantasy is dangerous not because the messiah is always corrupt or wrong but it teaches an entire society to wait rather than build.

And a society that has been waiting for a savior since 1947 has, by now, developed waiting into a civilization-level habit.... PROVE ME WRONG.

Also, bet you the bat that your immediate response is whataboutism on the military, implying either I support their actions or the existing system or some form of blanket statements that helps you calm your nerves and be able to use some existing script or "US vs them" Narrative.

Keep the bat.
But understand what it actually is: a very expensive mirror showing you exactly why the system cannot change.

 

[Jango007]

I would have bargained and taken more and given part to charity , maybe a school or hospital.... but I suppose that 2 million is better because good old biradari in action?
Mera sardar, meri zaat, mera Imran Khan..

not invested in an idea but a man.. this is why EVERY movement fails because this good old centuries old devotion to the person and not the idea..

meanwhile the man who supposedly talks to Riyasat e Medina has followers who think of status acts... I am the most devoted. My honor and identity is tied to this man.

This is precisely how Pakistan has reset to zero after every "movement" in its history. Bhuttoism died with Bhutto. Ayub's "decade of development" died with Ayub. The idea was never bigger than the person because the person was always the idea.

Every hour spent valorizing a signed bat is an hour not spent asking:
why did the movement fail structurally?
What institutions were built?
What changed in the land ownership laws, the braderi courts and mentality, the madrassa curriculum?
Was even a single corrupt individual prosected? Did the military get in line?

The answer to all of those is: nothing.

Because the movement was always about the man, not the mechanism.

The messiah fantasy is dangerous not because the messiah is always corrupt or wrong but it teaches an entire society to wait rather than build.

And a society that has been waiting for a savior since 1947 has, by now, developed waiting into a civilization-level habit.... PROVE ME WRONG.

Also, bet you the bat that your immediate response is whataboutism on the military, implying either I support their actions or the existing system or some form of blanket statements that helps you calm your nerves and be able to use some existing script or "US vs them" Narrative.

Keep the bat.
But understand what it actually is: a very expensive mirror showing you exactly why the system cannot change.

Thanks for your thoughtful response but you clearly assumed too much and missed the whole point of my post.


IK as a person means nothing to me but his struggle, honesty and work is what matters to me. Tomorrow if I find someone more honest, corruption free and a more sensible politician I will be happy to vote for the new saviour. But for now, there is no one else in the political system to lead and exemplify a movement and stature like IK does.

FYI, I bought the bat at the Namal auction many years back and since there are no more items in the market with IK signatures many have chosen to donate previously purchased items and sell them again to raise funds. I can assure you NAMAL is well taken care of financially without my bat and I know many who donate up to $50,000 every fundraiser.

You missed the point because having his bat has nothing to do with " Mera sardar, meri zaat, mera Imran Khan" . Perhaps if you care to search you will notice that people vote outside the zaat and baradaris when it comes to vote for IK. There is a reason why overwhelming educated and young people vote for Ik because they don’t believe in this zaat and baradari nonsense.

You are somewhat right when you say that " meanwhile the man who supposedly talks to Riyasat e Medina has followers who think of status acts... I am the most devoted. My honor and identity is tied to this man."


I dedicate much of my ethical and moral standing today because of my "following" to this man as a teacher. Allah has blessed me with more than what I deserved or ever dreamt of. In my profession where the insurance and billing are at my discretion and where the treatment provided is hardly ever questioned and I don’t really have to explain the work I perform; I have learned to be honest and never ever charge a dollar more than what is allowed to or do any work which is not required or fair.


I learned a lot listening and following IK and I am not ashamed to admit that.

As for your man vs idea comments, Bhutto is still very much alive and his corrupt life and unmatched destruction of our industry and institutes is practiced everywhere in Sindh. Infact his name will never die because his very name personifies corruption and his followers practice and glorify haram.


Ik is the exact opposite. And I do hope more people will follow his life style and principles to rid themselves of corruption and nepotism.





Your criticism of IK government is somewhat valid but I will blame much on inexperience, lack of political maturity, mostly Bajwa the snake being trusted and yes incompetence of ministers etc. The list is too long. However, three years is hardly a long enough time to grow a tree but you expected that tree to mature and fruits to be abundantly available. As if the generals were not conspiring to fail him, he also had COVID to deal with as well.



In short, I look at the bat and I thank it for making may be not the system but me a better , more ethical and caring person, someone who relates and feels pain of the poor and someone who despises corruption……you know why because that bat has a picture of IK on it!

 

[Goenitz]

Edhi is celebrated.
Dr Salam is
Dr Ruth is
and so o win.

Anything crossing those two boundaries is what makes your statement true which you generalized and oddly self satisfied your cultism by creating the absolute enemy.

I think they are not celebrated or as larger than life as our martyrs. Even Quaid and early leadership are not commemorated and cited by politicians or the army as such. They are seen with a neutral perspective, like homoeopathic medicine.
I might have generalised.
I stand at the same spot where the Army-led syllabus and narrative made me. It is the army which took a U-turn and made me an absolute enemy.

The only difference is that you might be held accountable, they are very rarely held accountable. If you only answer to that is "all military bad" then you are basically proving a mirror image of your own accusation against the military.

I don't think the entire military is bad. It is a well-oiled humanoid whose just chipset is 'faulty' or downloads a new version of right/wrong software after 3-6 years.

Nonetheless, the entire body gets the blame. However, as other body parts are obliged and constrained, I extend it to the entire public, as they are paying taxes, remittances and services. In summary, every Pakistani is supporting the regime even in inflicting atrocity on himself.
So, we cannot blame the entire army as that definition is flawed.

I stand with IK as I see myself or Arshad Sharif would have seen. I would have raised the same concern and question (as an ordinary citizen) and would have been jailed. He is a reflection of me or of my forefathers in the British era. I don't consider him a messiah or see him as an exemplary PM, but as my voice.

 

[Goenitz]

Our military setup, directly or indirectly, has never let any hero to rise. Every hero is either corrupt or traitor or of loose character.

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For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

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Our scientists, economists, philanthropists, politicians, bureaucrats, businessmen, etc., are all corrupt, and heroes are only military men.