PTI news, updates and discussions part ll

[LC150]

Our military setup, directly or indirectly, has never let any hero to rise. Every hero is either corrupt or traitor or of loose character.

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Our scientists, economists, philanthropists, politicians, bureaucrats, businessmen, etc., are all corrupt, and heroes are only military men.

they want to maintain absolute rule...

that is their end game...

what sucks is once upon a time dorks like me actually believed they used to do things like this for the the "greater good" of the nation.

 

[LC150]

View attachment 201888

I am waiting see his photo on chips packets...

 

[LC150]

an interesting take

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[Goenitz]

an interesting take

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fate... let's see how he can handle it.

 

[PakAl]

Challenge to PTI.

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[Jango007]

Challenge to PTI.

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Humm wonder why after every protest call they arrest leaders , block roads ,Deploy FC , water cannons and tear gas and brutal violence and hundreds disappear….

I think he needs to pay attention to Maryam’s upcoming plastic surgery in Switzerland and not worry about Pakistan .

 

[Jango007]

Another way these bastard generals are humiliating and insulting ordinary voters ….boot licker party buys four winning candidates who won on the support of PTI ….
Aleem khan did not even win enough votes combined to reach 1000 votes….

Four independents join Aleem Khan’s Istehkam-i-Pakistan Party in Gilgit-Baltistan

The IPP fielded 16 candidates from 16 constituencies in GB but failed to win any seat.

www.dawn.com

 

[LC150]

fate... let's see how he can handle it.

he got a temporary boost no doubt.. as did Mushy and those before him..

the main thing these tinpot dictators dont understand if you have take away legal rights of your citizens you have give some thing in return ie security, governance , economic progress etc..

this munir creature thinks he can get away with both ie providing none... At least Mushy always prioritized the economy.


In munir Pakistan ie "old Pakistan" Pakistanis citizens are screwed on all fronts.

this is a rare place where people are afraid of the thieves and police

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[Watandar]

they want to maintain absolute rule...

that is their end game...

what sucks is once upon a time dorks like me actually believed they used to do things like this for the the "greater good" of the nation.

Don't beat yourself too much about that. I was a similar dork back in the day, in fact I was a Musharraf supporter lol. We are conditioned by pro-army anti-civilian propaganda from childhood and it takes maturity and knowledge to learn the truth about the hugely negative role the army has played in Pakistan.

 

[Oscar]

Thanks for your thoughtful response but you clearly assumed too much and missed the whole point of my post.


IK as a person means nothing to me but his struggle, honesty and work is what matters to me. Tomorrow if I find someone more honest, corruption free and a more sensible politician I will be happy to vote for the new saviour. But for now, there is no one else in the political system to lead and exemplify a movement and stature like IK does.

FYI, I bought the bat at the Namal auction many years back and since there are no more items in the market with IK signatures many have chosen to donate previously purchased items and sell them again to raise funds. I can assure you NAMAL is well taken care of financially without my bat and I know many who donate up to $50,000 every fundraiser.

You missed the point because having his bat has nothing to do with " Mera sardar, meri zaat, mera Imran Khan" . Perhaps if you care to search you will notice that people vote outside the zaat and baradaris when it comes to vote for IK. There is a reason why overwhelming educated and young people vote for Ik because they don’t believe in this zaat and baradari nonsense.

You are somewhat right when you say that " meanwhile the man who supposedly talks to Riyasat e Medina has followers who think of status acts... I am the most devoted. My honor and identity is tied to this man."


I dedicate much of my ethical and moral standing today because of my "following" to this man as a teacher. Allah has blessed me with more than what I deserved or ever dreamt of. In my profession where the insurance and billing are at my discretion and where the treatment provided is hardly ever questioned and I don’t really have to explain the work I perform; I have learned to be honest and never ever charge a dollar more than what is allowed to or do any work which is not required or fair.


I learned a lot listening and following IK and I am not ashamed to admit that.

As for your man vs idea comments, Bhutto is still very much alive and his corrupt life and unmatched destruction of our industry and institutes is practiced everywhere in Sindh. Infact his name will never die because his very name personifies corruption and his followers practice and glorify haram.


Ik is the exact opposite. And I do hope more people will follow his life style and principles to rid themselves of corruption and nepotism.





Your criticism of IK government is somewhat valid but I will blame much on inexperience, lack of political maturity, mostly Bajwa the snake being trusted and yes incompetence of ministers etc. The list is too long. However, three years is hardly a long enough time to grow a tree but you expected that tree to mature and fruits to be abundantly available. As if the generals were not conspiring to fail him, he also had COVID to deal with as well.



In short, I look at the bat and I thank it for making may be not the system but me a better , more ethical and caring person, someone who relates and feels pain of the poor and someone who despises corruption……you know why because that bat has a picture of IK on it!

You do see the contradiction in your post.

"IK means nothing to me as a person"… then why the bat? Right there and then you are hypocritical - perhaps to your own self consciousness.

You open by saying IK as a person means nothing to you and only his principles do.
I respect that framing.


But then you close by saying you look at a bat with his picture on it and feel gratitude for becoming a better person.
Not a picture of justice.
Not a symbol of anti-corruption.
His face.
That's not following an idea but venerating a man.
The massive gap between those two statements is worth highlighting here.

Then another very high minded ideal (appreciated) You say you'd vote for someone better tomorrow if they existed. That's a rational, admirable position.

But notice what happens every time his failures come up and how you are responding: Bajwa, COVID, inexperience, short timeline, conspiring generals.
Every exit is blocked.
This hypothetical better leader never gets a real chance to exist because the current one's shortcomings are always someone else's fault. IK cannot be flawed to you so YOU WILL NEVER SEE A BETTER LEADER... ZInda hai Bhutto ZInda hai all over again. Messiah, cult - and then it gets more acerbic.

Saying you are replacing tribal loyalty with leader loyalty isn't the same as replacing it with principled thinking. Educated people form cults too and they just call them movements.

None of this means IK hasn't done good or that your values aren't real. They clearly are. But the bat with his face on it isn't a symbol of an idea and the moment your ethics need a face on them to stay alive...you can figure where this goes.

 

[Oscar]

View attachment 201888

This is just one cult getting mad at another cult. After all, why does the card need PTI colors? why not simple Green and white?

this is does not mean I did not support the program - but at the end the political colors and imagery are no different than the dictators image on the ATM screen.

 

[Oscar]

I think they are not celebrated or as larger than life as our martyrs. Even Quaid and early leadership are not commemorated and cited by politicians or the army as such. They are seen with a neutral perspective, like homoeopathic medicine.
I might have generalised.
I stand at the same spot where the Army-led syllabus and narrative made me. It is the army which took a U-turn and made me an absolute enemy.

I don't think the entire military is bad. It is a well-oiled humanoid whose just chipset is 'faulty' or downloads a new version of right/wrong software after 3-6 years.

Nonetheless, the entire body gets the blame. However, as other body parts are obliged and constrained, I extend it to the entire public, as they are paying taxes, remittances and services. In summary, every Pakistani is supporting the regime even in inflicting atrocity on himself.
So, we cannot blame the entire army as that definition is flawed.

I stand with IK as I see myself or Arshad Sharif would have seen. I would have raised the same concern and question (as an ordinary citizen) and would have been jailed. He is a reflection of me or of my forefathers in the British era. I don't consider him a messiah or see him as an exemplary PM, but as my voice.

Perfectly fine having a voice - but then do critique your own voice as well.
Because unless you can highlight the failures of your own voice - that voice becomes no more than one of cultism.

And to echo that voice's own phrasing of "No nation changes until they help themselves" - waiting on the voice to be the messiah and come out instead of creating an institution that can actually go beyond that change regardless of IK or not.

The mafia will win because they are an institution - you WILL Lose because it is all about IK all pumped around by "poets" on social media.

No second line with no institution and little discipline remaining.

A previous post critiqued Bhutto - all fair. But because just like Bhutto the moral identity is TIED to the leader, they spend three paragraphs explaining how IK made them more honest, more ethical, more caring. When a MAN IS SHAPING YOUR MORAL CORE - it is structurally identical to PPPP.

Why does the establishment work as it should? Ask yourselves - is the Field Marshal the actual problem? He is the face of your ire - but why is it the establishment is able to outlast everyone with changing faces all the time and still emerge back again?

 

[Goenitz]

This is just one cult getting mad at another cult. After all, why does the card need PTI colors? why not simple Green and white?

this is does not mean I did not support the program - but at the end the political colors and imagery are no different than the dictators image on the ATM screen.

bro.. you can if you bring it down to the colour scheme compared to blatant propaganda and picture, then what I can say.

Now, please remember the cable car incident. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-66589873

Local said in SM that DPO stopped them from helping the student using the conventional method, so that the Army could help them using helis. In the end, at night when the DPO left, locals immediately rescued them in no time.

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[Oscar]

bro.. you can if you bring it down to the colour scheme compared to blatant propaganda and picture, then what I can say.

Now, please remember the cable car incident. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-66589873

Local said in SM that DPO stopped them from helping the student using the conventional method, so that the Army could help them using helis. In the end, at night when the DPO left, locals immediately rescued them in no time.

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bro the colour scheme comment from you is a dodge and you know it. nobody said anything about design. the point was your ethics have his face on them.

Yes, the cable car incident is crappy and all about optics for a cult BUT
BUT
we were talking about you , your values, your words on PTI and suddenly we're at a cable car in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.

nobody's asking whether the establishment is corrupt. obviously yes. the question is whether wrapping your personal ethics around one guy's face makes you less like them or just gives you a different jersey to wear.

The cable car story kind of proves it btw. Army protected their image over kids' lives. that's what institutions do when the symbol matters more than the outcome. worth thinking about which direction that logic runs for you.

 

[Goenitz]

bro the colour scheme comment from you is a dodge and you know it. nobody said anything about design. the point was your ethics have his face on them.

I essentially meant when a political party does something good or protests, it brings its flag or colours to show where it stands. Now, how much it should be is debateable.

Yes, the cable car incident is crappy and all about optics for a cult BUT
BUT
we were talking about you , your values, your words on PTI and suddenly we're at a cable car in Khyber Pakhtunkhwa.

nobody's asking whether the establishment is corrupt. obviously yes. the question is whether wrapping your personal ethics around one guy's face makes you less like them or just gives you a different jersey to wear.

That I shared to endorse my point that the GHQ went to that extent on that day for its image, compared to the colour thing.

I may not reach your mental faculty and perspective as I am not that well-read. However, I can assure you I will not change my principles for one man or party.
I still appreciate it if the Army does something great or object if PTI does something wrong. In fact, I am not as such pro-democracy and freedom of expression, but pro-justice in whatever stable, structured system. It is this that hurts me.

For sure, in a physical battle between an infinite (army) and a finite (political parties) system, the infinite player would always win. The face doesn't matter here. Unless the finite player has the backing of an external infinite player.
Or the game is different, like SMedia management.