Rafale M Deal: India and France to Fast-Track Negotiations After Elections

[vikas]

In a significant development for India’s air defense capabilities, India and France have agreed to expedite price negotiations for the purchase of 26 Rafale M (Marine) fighter jets. Both nations acknowledge the importance of the deal and have opted to prioritize it after the upcoming General Elections in India.

The Indian Navy will acquire 22 single-seater Rafale M jets, specifically designed for aircraft carrier operations from IAC-I and II. Additionally, four twin-seater Rafale B (Marine) variants will serve pilot training purposes.

Beyond the immediate acquisition, the talks yielded substantial gains for India’s long-term defense autonomy. France has committed to increasing the sourcing of Rafale components from India, marking a crucial step towards self-reliance. To solidify this commitment, the semi-structural airframe of the Rafale will soon be manufactured and shipped from DRAL to Dassault Aviation.

Further bolstering India’s strategic position, France has agreed to establish an MRO (Maintenance, Repair, and Overhaul) facility for the M-88 engines that power the Rafale jets. This facility will not only cater to India’s needs but also serve as a regional hub for servicing the engines of other Asian Rafale operators.

Overall, the expedited negotiations and increased collaboration signify a robust partnership between India and France. The Rafale deal promises not only to enhance India’s airpower but also to lay the foundation for a more technologically self-reliant defense ecosystem.

 

[Wisdom]

Seems politically correct considering the drama by Rahul baba last time around.
Though won’t be surprised if the stakeholders are already in the paper work stage awaiting the election result before announcement.

 

[That_Guy]

Well, that explains PAF getting the J-31, and not waiting for KAAN.

While the J10C would be able to match the Rafales, only a 5th gen would be able to guarantee victory over a European fighter.

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

I've to admit, no matter what the domestic condition is, the PAF is keeping it's edge via urgent J-31 projected acquisition. Couple it with the recent approach to have HAVA-SOJ EW/EC aircrafts from Turkey along with raising more JF-17C squadrons. KIZILELMA and ANKA-3 are getting into serial production in 2025. I am pretty sure the PAF will have its due share....

 

[Archie]

Well, that explains PAF getting the J-31, and not waiting for KAAN.

While the J10C would be able to match the Rafales, only a 5th gen would be able to guarantee victory over a European fighter.

For all this to happen
J-31 has to first enter serial production, at the moment it's in testing phase , but much ahead of Turkish KAAN

However given the recent move by Turkiye to buy 40 new Block 70 F16s and upgrade kits for 230 older F16s for 25 billion USD . I don't think they have that much confidence in KAAN getting operational before 2040

As far as J10C is concerned, nobody know how good it will perform in actual combat
I will still put my money on Rafale F3R

 

[dbc]

As far as J10C is concerned, nobody know how good it will perform in actual combat
I will still put my money on Rafale F3R

And do we know how the Rafale F3R will perform in actual combat?

 

[DDG-80]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1753036336645190017

 

[Pingle]

Awesome news bro @DDG-80 ..... looking at the current operation undertaken by our navy near red sea they deserved additional teeth as we can henceforth expect such many more operations in near future.....

I'm specifically happy on scorpeans as 6 was always a small no for this deadly submarine....... our kilos though older but still deadly will need a replacement and 9 scorpeans will give us some breathing space..... now hope our navy scrap P75 and go for G2G to France for shortfin barracudas..... imagine the submarine fleet with 9 scorpeans, 6 to 9 barracudas, 5 kilos (assuming we retire 3 older kilos) and 5 homemade boomers.....

 

[UKBengali]

I think that India should immedidiately stop buying any 4+ generation fighters.

They have something like a 10:1 loss ratio against 5th gen fighters.

Pakistan would only need to buy around 40 J-31s and they will dominate the Indian Air Force.

India may need to sacrifice some of its sovereignty and get some F-35s from the US as if it continues on its current course in just 3-4 years from now, the PAF will dominate the skies of South Asia.

 

[nibba]

I think that India should immedidiately stop buying any 4+ generation fighters.

They have something like a 10:1 loss ratio against 5th gen fighters.

Pakistan would only need to buy around 40 J-31s and they will dominate the Indian Air Force.

India may need to sacrifice some of its sovereignty and get some F-35s from the US as if it continues on its current course in just 3-4 years from now, the PAF will dominate the skies of South Asia.

10:1 loss ratio where?

We will see about j-31 when it arrives. Chinese made weapons just feel so unthreatening lol. I know i should not underestimate.

 

[Deino]

In a significant development for India’s air defense capabilities, India and France have agreed to expedite price negotiations for the purchase of 26 Rafale M (Marine) fighter jets. Both nations acknowledge the importance of the deal and have opted to prioritize it after the upcoming General Elections in India.

The Indian Navy will acquire 22 single-seater Rafale M jets, specifically designed for aircraft carrier operations from IAC-I and II. Additionally, four twin-seater Rafale B (Marine) variants will serve pilot training purposes.

Beyond the immediate acquisition, the talks yielded substantial gains for India’s long-term defense autonomy. France has committed to increasing the sourcing of Rafale components from India, marking a crucial step towards self-reliance. To solidify this commitment, the semi-structural airframe of the Rafale will soon be manufactured and shipped from DRAL to Dassault Aviation.

Further bolstering India’s strategic position, France has agreed to establish an MRO (Maintenance, Repair, and Overhaul) facility for the M-88 engines that power the Rafale jets. This facility will not only cater to India’s needs but also serve as a regional hub for servicing the engines of other Asian Rafale operators.

Overall, the expedited negotiations and increased collaboration signify a robust partnership between India and France. The Rafale deal promises not only to enhance India’s airpower but also to lay the foundation for a more technologically self-reliant defense ecosystem.

And what's the current verdict concerning the too small lifts and hangar doors for both aircraft carriers?

Just two weeks ago I spoke with an Indian defence analyst from a well-known think tank and he confirmed that these rumours are true: The IN has currently no solution if they indeed decide to purchase Rafales since the fighter in its current form DOES NOT fit the lifts.

As such, the options are right now:

1. to ask Dassault for a dedicated solution ... maybe by always removing the wing-tip-pylons whenever they need to be stored under deck (which is not easy since they are more or less an integral part of the wing and cannot be simply attached and de-attached per will even more so under ops at sea!).

2. to just leave them on deck, which however is not ideal since they are prone to additional corrosion!

3. to transfer both carriers back to a yard where the deck needs to be cut in order to install new lifts as well as new larger hangar doors ... this however hasn't been done before on any aircraft carrier, is too costly and difficult to make (and as such is not really an option).

 

[dbc]

And what's the current verdict concerning the too small lifts and hangar doors for both aircraft carriers?

Just two weeks ago I spoke with an Indian defence analyst from a well-known think tank and he confirmed that these rumours are true: The IN has currently no solution if they indeed decide to purchase Rafales since the fighter in its current form DOES NOT fit the lifts.

As such, the options are right now:

1. to ask Dassault for a dedicated solution ... maybe by always removing the wing-tip-pylons whenever they need to be stored under deck (which is not easy since they are more or less an integral part of the wing and cannot be simply attached and de-attached per will even more so under ops at sea!).

2. to just leave them on deck, which however is not ideal since they are prone to additional corrosion!

3. to transfer both carriers back to a yard where the deck needs to be cut in order to install new lifts as well as new larger hangar doors ... this however hasn't been done before on any aircraft carrier, is too costly and difficult to make (and as such is not really an option).

None of the above, I speculate* the IN plan to continue using the MiG-29’s and deploy the Rafale-Ms near shore and use the carriers when necessary to re-arm, refuel the Rafale-M’s at sea to extend the reach of the Rafale-M.

*Not entirely true, heard this from industry sources.

 

[Sharma Ji]

126 Rafales, some M

there was never any doubt about it

I'd been harping on about this on the old forum too.. wait and watch.

 

[UKBengali]

10:1 loss ratio where?

We will see about j-31 when it arrives. Chinese made weapons just feel so unthreatening lol. I know i should not underestimate.

Exercises from both the USA and China where their 5th generation went up against the best 4th generation they had available.

Remember what you cannot "see" you cannot hit.

 

[Deino]

None of the above, I speculate* the IN plan to continue using the MiG-29’s and deploy the Rafale-Ms near shore and use the carriers when necessary to re-arm, refuel the Rafale-M’s at sea to extend the reach of the Rafale-M.

*Not entirely true, heard this from industry sources.

Well, this is in fact what the IN already does in a slightly different fashion with the MiG-29Ks today! Using them only within a VERY - and that's in fact a plain embarrassing VERY limited range - within the coast off the carriers since they need to come back to a base in case the carrier's arresting gear fails. (also according to this analyst!)