Rafale M Deal: India and France to Fast-Track Negotiations After Elections

Deino said:
In fact I made a mistake and even admitted for this, this Tweet was indeed fake and I didn't check properly! :(
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I posted before I read the full thread. Would have deleted my post if I could.
 
kambhakt said:
I posted before I read the full thread. Would have deleted my post if I could.
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No problem I only wanted to explain, but the other seems to be happy with my mistake since from now on facts are even more irrelevant regardless all the BS he posts all the way.
 
well as per latest news IAF has pressed MOD & CCS to fast pace procurement of 114 Rafale as the squadern strength of IAF is depleteing fast since almost all of Mig21&27s if any remained besides all older verssions of Jaguars are to be retired in these two years

while IAF also pressing MOD for a new deal with russia and russia is finally agreed to tranfer tech to manufacture the latest verssion of AL41 as that on SU35SM as they dont have capacity to share for export

so a lot will happen in coming weeks
 
Guru Dutt said:
well as per latest news IAF has pressed MOD & CCS to fast pace procurement of 114 Rafale as the squadern strength of IAF is depleteing fast since almost all of Mig21&27s if any remained besides all older verssions of Jaguars are to be retired in these two years

while IAF also pressing MOD for a new deal with russia and russia is finally agreed to tranfer tech to manufacture the latest verssion of AL41 as that on SU35SM as they dont have capacity to share for export

so a lot will happen in coming weeks
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I expect the negotiations for next 114 Rafales to take 10 more years because there is a clause requiring 100% technology transfer. the total cost of the deal will be at least $50 billion. If the Rafales purchased are the F4 version, the deal could easily surpass $100 billion. Given this substantial expenditure, 100% technology transfer is a must.
 
Magadh said:
I expect the negotiations for next 114 Rafales to take 10 more years because there is a clause requiring 100% technology transfer. the total cost of the deal will be at least $50 billion. If the Rafales purchased are the F4 version, the deal could easily surpass $100 billion. Given this substantial expenditure, 100% technology transfer is a must.
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even the dumbest and most arrogant MOD Babboon knows that no defence contractor is going to share its cutting edge technology just cause your buying its prodeuct in a good number

there are others too that are buying it in almost simillar or pretty close numbers so there is no point like so called 100% TOT ..... India too has changed its Make In India programme and ammended some of its over ambitious goals that were simply unacceptable to the seller

now the nagociations for product is already over only the price part is also settelled before the lections some clerrical /beurocratic job is remaining as the deal in principal about the type of new upgrades and there prices and who and how and where they will be installed are all already settlled between both the parties

but ya you can dream no harm in it ....cheers mate
 
Guru Dutt said:
even the dumbest and most arrogant MOD Babboon knows that no defence contractor is going to share its cutting edge technology just cause your buying its prodeuct in a good number

there are others too that are buying it in almost simillar or pretty close numbers so there is no point like so called 100% TOT ..... India too has changed its Make In India programme and ammended some of its over ambitious goals that were simply unacceptable to the seller

now the nagociations for product is already over only the price part is also settelled before the lections some clerrical /beurocratic job is remaining as the deal in principal about the type of new upgrades and there prices and who and how and where they will be installed are all already settlled between both the parties

but ya you can dream no harm in it ....cheers mate
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If France doesn't agree to a 100% technology transfer, they won't win the MMRCA deal. In that case, India may consider other fighter jets like the Gripen E, which also comes with Meteor missiles integrated and has been offered with 100% technology transfer by SAAB. The Gripen E can serve as a stop-gap measure until the Tejas MK2 enters production. Additionally, the TEDBF is also under development, so Rafales aren't an urgent necessity for the Indian Air Force.
 
Magadh said:
If France doesn't agree to a 100% technology transfer, they won't win the MMRCA deal. In that case, India may consider other fighter jets like the Gripen E, which also comes with Meteor missiles integrated and has been offered with 100% technology transfer by SAAB. The Gripen E can serve as a stop-gap measure until the Tejas MK2 enters production. Additionally, the TEDBF is also under development, so Rafales aren't an urgent necessity for the Indian Air Force.
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NO weapons manufacturer will ever ever give you 100% TOT .... we are using Mig21s and 29s for decades now and the largest users of Flankers outside russia but has russia given us so called 100% TOT HELL NO we still need some critical RAW Material for there engine, Radar , communication and control parts from russia

same goes for Dassault we are using Mirage 2000 since almost 40 years now did they give even 50% TOT till now rather they took 40 Million per peice for its upgrade and that did not include engine

while no matter what Grippen will never be part of IAF after what they did against Indian interests and Dassault has much much better product than Grippen and pound per pound on basis of weapons load carrying capacity when compared to mantainence and flying costs still Rafale is a better option for IAF
 
Magadh said:
If France doesn't agree to a 100% technology transfer, they won't win the MMRCA deal. In that case, India may consider other fighter jets like the Gripen E, which also comes with Meteor missiles integrated and has been offered with 100% technology transfer by SAAB. The Gripen E can serve as a stop-gap measure until the Tejas MK2 enters production. Additionally, the TEDBF is also under development, so Rafales aren't an urgent necessity for the Indian Air Force.
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Nobody will agree to 100% ToT and that is not a requirement of the MRFA RFP, since it hasn't even been released.

So, please pipe down.
 
Yasser76 said:
Well, France can now charge India what they like.
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You ought to worry more about how Pakistan will service it's debt by the end of this year.

Just FYI, the French already have made a price offer and the cost of the 22 Rafale Ms and 4 Rafale Ds were pegged at around USD 6 billion (INR 50,000 crores)

The Indian side is clear about the negotiations and wants to use the previous deal for the 36 planes for the Indian Air Force as the base price for the naval deal.

The price will add inflation costs that were agreed upon between the two sides in the previous deal.
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link

The French know very well that if they seal this contract, they are several steps closer to a MRFA contract. Which means, there is a much bigger pie that they're eyeing and they're not going to sour their chances with this contract which doesn't require setting up an assembly line in India, at least so far.

How anyone can equate this to mean that the French can charge whatever they want is beyond me. But then, you are well known for what you are.
 
Magadh said:
I expect the negotiations for next 114 Rafales to take 10 more years because there is a clause requiring 100% technology transfer. the total cost of the deal will be at least $50 billion. If the Rafales purchased are the F4 version, the deal could easily surpass $100 billion. Given this substantial expenditure, 100% technology transfer is a must.
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A typical american point of view.
Rafale is not the financial black hole called F35.

Dry price of french made Rafale = 90 € millions (without VAT).
The factory is already made. Maybe they will have to enlarge it..
Double the cost because of Indian made because they have to double all the french tools and machines and test benchs = 180 € millions.
Add 10 % margin for Dassault. = 200 € millions each.
Add 10 billions to contribute to the Know How transfert. It is a huge price ! but we are generous :)

Great total = 127 x 200 millions + 10 billions = 35 € billions = 31 $ billions.

Far from the 50 to 100 billions seen by uncle Sam....
 
Magadh said:
If France doesn't agree to a 100% technology transfer, they won't win the MMRCA deal. In that case, India may consider other fighter jets like the Gripen E, which also comes with Meteor missiles integrated and has been offered with 100% technology transfer by SAAB. The Gripen E can serve as a stop-gap measure until the Tejas MK2 enters production. Additionally, the TEDBF is also under development, so Rafales aren't an urgent necessity for the Indian Air Force.
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Good luck with Gripen : the engine is US made, and you already know the mess it is to purchase US engine.
F404 is not brand new techology, it is not the F414 case, so even harder.

And Gripen E is a direct competitor to Tejas. Do you imagine indian top brass ready to import a direct competitor to indian fighter ? What a signal for export ! NEVER.
 
Guru Dutt said:
same goes for Dassault we are using Mirage 2000 since almost 40 years now did they give even 50% TOT till now rather they took 40 Million per peice for its upgrade and that did not include engine
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ToT was not requested when you purchased M2000.

40 millions : the package was definied by IAF. If it wasn't convenient why ordering ?
In the 40 millions there is part of ToT, an increase in life span and I suppose the HAL work. It is not the Dassault bill.
 
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