TF-X / KAAN / Hürjet Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircrafts News & Discussions

[xbat]

China is super power today but it was not yesterday, you cant compare today's turkey with yesterday's china

 

[PakAl]

That’s a fat claim I ever heard for a while. Before WS15, China already massively deployed f110 equivalent WS10 engines that are powering >1000 fighters, including single engine fighters such as J10CP. No country other than US matches this. For comparison, Current KAAN relies on F110-129 which is banned by US for supply, meaning Turkey even lacks of any experience in producing last generation F110 grade big thrust engine, let alone more advanced f119 class. One must learn walk before run.

Furthermore, China’s industry infrastructures including metallurgical industries and manufacturing capacity are much more advanced and sizable in general.

Despite all the experience gained from WS10 development and advanced industry capabilities and way larger economies, it still took China 20 years to develop and mature ws15 TWR 10 grade big thrust engine beating F119.

Thats fine, we will see in 2036, although Turkey claims the engine will be ready in 2032, to me that looks very challenging. I wish Turkey the best, we shouldn't forget people also thought Turkey will not be able to build 5th generation plane but it flew and will be inducted around 2028 2029 time. The engine research, gaining technology of many components, design is already been done, although its still a big challenge but the engineers are confident.

 

[Oublious]

LoL

Because China did it in 20 years we should do it in 20 years to...

Dumb argument nothing more.

 

[PakAl]

LoL

Because China did it in 20 years we should do it in 20 years to...

Dumb argument nothing more.

Ws15 research and design etc started in 1990s but China faced many setbacks, as @xbat mentioned, China of 1990s and 2000s is not China of today. Today technology is much more advanced, Turkey will make sure design flows and many setbacks will be sorted out before beginning the actual production, they may still face setbacks but the engineers are confident. Turkey must have done its research before officially announcing the project in 2018, if by 2035 its in full production then that's already 17 years.

 

[hyperman]

What matters to develop a TWR10 big thrust engine ( not the TWR 6 small thrust TF6000 ) is your ability to produce components such as single crystal blade, Blisks, HPC, FADEC etc, not the assembly of CKDs. If you believe Turkey is more experienced because they know how to assemble CKDs, then there’s no value to continue the discussion, believe what you would like to believe

You know Turkey has Single Crystal Blades right?

 

[Oublious]

Ws15 research and design etc started in 1990s but China faced many setbacks, as @xbat mentioned, China of 1990s and 2000s is not China of today. Today technology is much more advanced, Turkey will make sure design flows and many setbacks will be sorted out before beginning the actual production, they may still face setbacks but the engineers are confident. Turkey must have done its research before officially announcing the project in 2018, if by 2035 its in full production then that's already 17 years.

What China did and is doing is irrelevant, good for them.

 

[turkinusa3344]

China was building everything from Scratch, Turkey is not starting from scratch. Turkey was license producing the GE-F110 in Turkey. And Turkey build components for many current commercial GE engines.

This is wrong. Everything is being built from nothing. USA is lending engines for a few years.

 

[royalharris]

All just pointless rambling.
You claim mass production in one year, ten years, even a hundred years — who can prove any of it now? Total nonsense.

 

[hodor]

Debates like this happen about every six months. In the past, there were also similar discussions about Kaan, but Kaan is a real project that made its first flight.

I think the U.S. will provide the f110 engine

The domestically produced engine is scheduled to enter service by 2032-35

 

[Falcon26]

The time it took China to make its first 5th gen fighter engine is no benchmark for Turkey. Granted Turkey’s engine development program is highly ambitious, but to be fair, so were Turkey’s drone, helicopter and KAAN programs. Turkey has consistently shown it can break tech ceilings despite external misgivings about their capabilities to do so.

If Turkey can field a 5th gen fighter engine by 2032, that will be historic achievement. I get the misgivings and doubts about their ability to do so, but if recent trends are any indication, there’s no reason to doubt them.

My two cents.

 

[Merzifonlu]

I think the U.S. will provide the f110 engine

I don't think the US will provide those GE F110 engines. This leads us to two possibilities:

a) Turkish officials are very naive, even stupid. They are too clueless to realize that this deal with the US is impossible.

Or b) They are aware of everything and will take the risk, using a premature version of the TF35000 engine.

 

[PakAl]

I don't think the US will provide those GE F110 engines. This leads us to two possibilities:

a) Turkish officials are very naive, even stupid. They are too clueless to realize that this deal with the US is impossible.

Or b) They are aware of everything and will take the risk, using a premature version of the TF35000 engine.

Usa already provided some GE F110 engines to Turkey, meanwhile the big quantity deal is being discussed. If not Turkey will continue to upgrade the TFX until their domestic engine is available (2032), so only 4 years delay but Turkey will still have around 10 TFX flying.

 

[HH-9A]

LoL

Because China did it in 20 years we should do it in 20 years to...

Dumb argument nothing more.

Really dumb things are keeping talking a paper engine yet calling reality check a dumb argument.

Japan IHI assembled better F110 containing close to 50% Japan made components, and developed a small thrust XF5 as well.

So on the same ground, Japanese decided to develop their own F119 equivalent XF9, a 15 tons grade engine themselves, to power their own 5th shinshin prototype, which test flew 22 times, a number several times more than that of combined two KAAN prototypes flying in recent years.

To achieve that indigenous 5th gen fighter goal, at least Japanese really manufactured XF9-1 core engine ( a stage TF35000 has yet reach today) in 2018, and tested on ground to verify design parameters for five years, the outcome speaks itself as the XF9 project is as good as dead now. Although XF9-1 engine was offered to India to power AMCA, but Indians are not easily scammed and rejected this experimental engine, really contrary to here where paper engine flies like real.

 

[xbat]

I don't think the US will provide those GE F110 engines. This leads us to two possibilities:

a) Turkish officials are very naive, even stupid. They are too clueless to realize that this deal with the US is impossible.

Or b) They are aware of everything and will take the risk, using a premature version of the TF35000 engine.

i disagree with you, US-TURKISH relations are dynamics , it is alternate by the time, today we have good relations even F35s are possible. i expect F110 local production agreement soon for around 100-110 engines.

 

[xbat]

Really dumb things are keeping talking a paper engine yet calling reality check a dumb argument.

Japan IHI assembled better F110 containing close to 50% Japan made components, and developed a small thrust XF5 as well.

So on the same ground, Japanese decided to develop their own F119 equivalent XF9, a 15 tons grade engine themselves, to power their own 5th shinshin prototype, which test flew 22 times, a number several times more than that of combined two KAAN prototypes flying in recent years.

To achieve that indigenous 5th gen fighter goal, at least Japanese really manufactured XF9-1 core engine ( a stage TF35000 has yet reach today) in 2018, and tested on ground to verify design parameters for five years, the outcome speaks itself as the XF9 project is as good as dead now. Although XF9-1 engine was offered to India to power AMCA, but Indians are not easily scammed and rejected this experimental engine, really contrary to here where paper engine flies like real.

dude! we dont have to convince you. you guys didnt believe KAAN too. we dont care what outsiders think about us.