TF-X / KAAN / Hürjet Turkish Fighter & Trainer Aircrafts News & Discussions

[That_Guy]

SSB President Haluk Görgün said "the indigenous engine will be ready for KAAN's mass production".

Some say that "domestic engine means the F110 engine to be produced under license"

@MMM-E What is your opinion on this?

Doesn't really make sense. The F110 may have been used in the prototype, but it's severely underpowered for a large 5th gen aircraft like the KAAN.

 

[MMM-E]

SSB President Haluk Görgün said "the indigenous engine will be ready for KAAN's mass production".

Some say that "domestic engine means the F110 engine to be produced under license"

@MMM-E What is your opinion on this?

Domestic Engine is 35.000 lbf Engine being developed by TR-MOTOR ( collaboration with TEI and IVCHENKO PROGRESS )

And Domestic Engine will be ready for mass production of KAAN in 2028-2032 period

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

Domestic Engine is 35.000 lbf Engine being developed by TR-MOTOR ( collaboration with TEI and IVCHENKO PROGRESS )

And Domestic Engine will be ready for mass production of KAAN in 2028-2032 period
View attachment 21646

We will see what happens to your indigenous engine project you're too optimistic for time frame

 

[MMM-E]

We will see what happens to your indigenous engine project you're too optimistic for time frame

Everybody is optimistic from TAI -TEI to President of Defense Industry
They says that Indigenous Engine will be ready for mass production of KAAN

just wait and see

2018-2032 ... ideal time frame


Turkish Engineers are working day and night ...
They work with 3 years of performance in 1 year
Otherwise, Turkiye would not have been able to develop 10 platforms and make their first flight in 10 years

AKINCI
TB-2 /TB-3
AKSUNGUR
HURJET
KIZILELMA
ANKA-3
KAAN
T-625
T-929 ATAK
and TEI TS-1400 Turboshaft Engine

There is no performance like this in the world

 

[That_Guy]

We will see what happens to your indigenous engine project you're too optimistic for time frame

To be fair, he has every right to be optimistic.

Turkish projects have generally been far ahead of schedule, including the KAAN project.

KAAN was supposed to have a first flight in the middle of 2026 originally. It's more than 2 years ahead of schedule.

Also Turkey does have experience with manufacturing vital components for advanced engines, including both the F-16 engines which it manufactures domestically, as well as single crystal blades and other vital components for F-35 engines (before sanctions hit).

 

[Merzifonlu]

We will see what happens to your indigenous engine project you're too optimistic for time frame

The progress of the TF-10000 engine provides us with a good clue. If this engine quickly reaches the targeted thrust levels by fulfilling other requirements, we can be hopeful for the TF-35000 engine. Because the technologies to be used in the TF-35000 engine will be tested in the TF-10000 engine first.

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

Everybody is optimistic from TAI -TEI to President of Defense Industry
They says that Indigenous Engine will be ready for mass production of KAAN

just wait and see

2018-2032 ... ideal time frame
View attachment 21647

Turkish Engineers are working day and night ...
They work with 3 years of performance in 1 year
Otherwise, they would not have been able to develop 10 platforms and make their first flight in 10 years

AKINCI
TB-2 /TB-3
AKSUNGUR
HURJET
ANKA-3
KAAN
T-625
T-929 ATAK
and TEI TS-1400 Turboshaft Engine

There is no performance like this in the world

Yeah with limited resources and limited experience to design and develop high thrust class engine

Look Mr China have lot of resources and experience to design and develop engine for j20 and but China took more than 20 years to design and develop WS-15 for J-20, so there's no way that Turkiye can mass produce indigenous engine for KAAN in 2028-2033 time-frame, my best guesstimate for indigenous engine for KAAN will come after 2035-2040 time frame

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

To be fair, he has every right to be optimistic.

Turkish projects have generally been far ahead of schedule, including the KAAN project.

KAAN was supposed to have a first flight in the middle of 2026 originally. It's more than 2 years ahead of schedule.

Also Turkey does have experience with manufacturing vital components for advanced engines, including both the F-16 engines which it manufactures domestically, as well as single crystal blades and other vital components for F-35 engines (before sanctions hit).

No according to various sources first flight was in 2023 not in 2026

 

[That_Guy]

No according to various sources first flight was in 2023 not in 2026

No, that was a revised time-line.

The original official time-line was 2026, it was revised down to Dec 2023, and then slightly revised up to Feb 2024, only a 2 month difference.

Either way, it's 2 years ahead of schedule.

 

[That_Guy]

Yeah with limited resources and limited experience to design and develop high thrust class engine

Look Mr China have lot of resources and experience to design and develop engine for j20 and but China took more than 20 years to design and develop WS-15 for J-20, so there's no way that Turkiye can mass produce indigenous engine for KAAN in 2028-2033 time-frame, my best guesstimate for indigenous engine for KAAN will come after 2035-2040 time frame

China had to start from scratch, Turkey had the benefit of being a part of various NATO supply/manufacturing lines.

There is a clear difference.

So far, Turkey has either been close to, or has exceeded time-line expectations.

They've done extremely well.

No one even thought that Turkey would even get this far, yet here we are.

Also Turkey is getting technical help from existing engine developers such as Ivchenko-Progress which is speeding things along.

 

[MMM-E]

Yeah with limited resources and limited experience to design and develop high thrust class engine

Look Mr China have lot of resources and experience to design and develop engine for j20 and but China took more than 20 years to design and develop WS-15 for J-20, so there's no way that Turkiye can mass produce indigenous engine for KAAN in 2028-2033 time-frame, my best guesstimate for indigenous engine for KAAN will come after 2035-2040 time frame

Turkiye is not China
Every country has its own advantages

Turkiye has western standard Engine technologies and experience for 35 years
Thanks to American GENERAL ELECTRIC ( GE ) which collaborated with Turkish TEI for decades

and Turkiye has developed GAS TURBINE Engine ( TS-1400 ) with the latest technologies including Single crystal blade technology ... ( only a few Countries in the World )

Turkiye develops 10.000 lbf TF-10.000 turbofan Engine
When we increase the diameter of the TF-10.000 engine by 30 cm, it will have a power effect of 35,000 lbf


The first prototype of TEI TF-6.000 Turbofan Engine is about to be completed!

the first ignition soon


We can develop 35.000 lbf turbofan Engine as of 2028-2032 period
Our Guys very well knows what they talking about

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

Turkiye is not China
Every country has its own advantages

Turkiye has western standard Engine technologies and experience for 35 years
Thanks to American GENERAL ELECTRIC ( GE ) which collaborated with Turkish TEI for decades

and Turkiye has developed GAS TURBINE Engine ( TS-1400 ) with the latest technologies including Single crystal blade technology ... ( only a few Countries in the World )

Turkiye develops 10.000 lbf TF-10.000 turbofan Engine
When we increase the diameter of the TF-10.000 engine by 30 cm, it will have a power effect of 35,000 lbf


The first prototype of TEI TF-6.000 Turbofan Engine is about to be completed!

the first ignition soon
View attachment 21652

We can develop 35.000 lbf turbofan Engine as of 2028-2032 period
Our Guys very well knows what they talking about

No you haven't built 35.000 lbf class engine, it's lot more difficult to develop higher thrust class engine like f119 and WS-15 it's a totally different and difficult ball game than ge f110

 

[hyperman]

It will certainly be difficult to build an engine in the 35,000 class, but I guess lets see how it plays out. Turkey isn't starting from scratch, and may even get some help from Ivchenko Progress or RollsRoyce.

People mention the China example, but Japan has managed to build a similar engine as well, or atleast a prototype.

IHI Corporation XF9 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[That_Guy]

No you haven't built 35.000 lbf class engine, it's lot more difficult to develop higher thrust class engine like f119 and WS-15 it's a totally different and difficult ball game than ge f110

The basic principle is the same across most jet engines.

While getting to 35,000 pounds of thrust is not easy, Turkey does have an experienced partner to help achieve it. Ivchenko-Progress has decades of experience developing high thrust jet engines, so Turkey does have a good chance of developing the engine on time.

The issue then remains of engine life expectancy. It'll likely be low, but the engine will work as intended.

 

[That_Guy]

It will certainly be difficult to build an engine in the 35,000 class, but I guess lets see how it plays out. Turkey isn't starting from scratch, and may even get some help from Ivchenko Progress or RollsRoyce.

People mention the China example, but Japan has managed to build a similar engine as well, or atleast a prototype.

IHI Corporation XF9 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I don't think achieving 35,000 pounds of force is the most difficult part, I'd say it's life expectancy of the engine. The bare minimum to make it truly viable is roughly 1500+ hours life span, anything less would make the jets more expensive to keep air worthy over all.

Luckily, Turkey has experience in regards to developing high-quality parts for existing systems, and even the KAAN prototype is extremely well made, on par with Western/European quality. I don't have any doubt that Turkey will be able to quickly balance price/performance metrics for the new jet engine. With Ivchenko-Progress' experience, and Turkey's technology, the new engine should end up being quite well made.

Having said that, the initial prototype engines will take quite a white to develop to an acceptable level, worthy of export.