The J-20 Challenge: Can India Bridge the Fighter Jet Gap With China?

[silicon0000]

There is a perception in India that Chinese products are of low quality, which is why they often make fun of the J-20. It's common in India to refer to anything of bad quality as "Chinese quality."

Yes for sure… just check the manufacturing quality of a Tejas vs a J-10C or even J-20 and you know what this Indian saying is worth !

@Deino I think He is referring Common Indian People perception.

China's manufacturing industry caters to a wide range of customer demands (Not talking about defence product but common use items like household items). They can produce high-quality goods at a premium price or lower-priced items that may compromise on quality. This flexibility allows them to be competitive in global markets.

In developing countries like India, Pakistan, where affordability is a major concern, imports often prioritise lower-priced goods. This can lead to the perception of common people that Chinese products overall are of lower quality. Thus this term "Chinese Quality" to refer low quality product is common in people.

 

[SolarWarden]

Another huge advantage is high Mach-1 sustained super cruise.

That is why some people do not include the F-35 as a true 5th generation fighter as it cannot supercruise.

Who are these "some people" that think the F-35 isn't a 5th gen fighter? Those people are dumb.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

J-20 is indeed a great game changer
Even Americans are quite impressed by that fighter jet

You don't hear bold claims about 40-0 record , when they talk with J-20 in context.

The Super Cruise , aspect of the plane is a tremendous gain for Chinese Airforce

China has greatly reduced the Missile Advantage US fighter jets enjoyed for long period of time

J-20 Matches the performance dynamics of Raptor F-22
Which was considered a superior jet to F-35 by many Americans

J-20 is just top of line

Looking at Indian focus in relation to Russia I doubt they will go against Russian-Chinese growing ties

Indians are themselves trying to grow their own Trade with Russia

I could see China-Indian ties normalizing in not far off future

 

[UKBengali]

Who are these "some people" that think the F-35 isn't a 5th gen fighter? Those people are dumb.

As some people use supercruise as one of the key criteria of being a 5th generation fighter.

F-22, J-20 and even the Russian claimed 5th generation SU-57 can supercruise.

It makes sense as supercruise offers immense kinetic advantages, especially at high altitude BVR duels.

Neither F-35 or SU-57 are 5th generation in my opinion as one lacks supercruise and the other is not stealthy enough.

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

F-35 was a notch below the F-22 Raptor , it was admitted by many Americans. That F-22 was superior plane

F-35 was perhaps a plane much cheaper and perhaps was something that can be shared with other allies

USA was not Keen to share F-22 Raptor tech with anyone

Cost was biggest factor for USA to retire F-22

Chinese have after 15-20 years of their own research managed to create a pretty close capable plane similar to F-22

• But American have that vertical Take off/Vertical landing , plane in F-35
• That capability is useless in actual Dog fight

 

[Pioneer]

There is a perception in India that Chinese products are of low quality, which is why they often make fun of the J-20. It's common in India to refer to anything of bad quality as "Chinese quality."

Yes. I know. I remember India launched the "boycott of Chinese goods" movement in 2020. Indians provide a long list of boycotts.

What makes some Chinese crazy laughing at this is this

At the same time, Chinese people have also launched a movement to boycott Indian goods. Then.. Chinese people have found that India has not exported industrial products to China.

 

[SolarWarden]

F-35 was a notch below the F-22 Raptor , it was admitted by many Americans. That F-22 was superior plane

Lol. No. To quote General hostage “The F-35 doesn’t have the altitude, doesn’t have the speed [of the F-22], but it can beat the F-22 in stealth.”

F-22 service ceiling is 65k feet and combat ceiling of 50k feet. F-35 service and combat ceiling is 50k feet but guess what.... those heights will never be reached during combat. Once you start entering 50k feet altitude you are in danger of blacking out. You can't stay up that high without pressure suit.

F-35 will see the F-22 first. F-35 avionics is superior to F-22. When you research air wars you discover that flying at mach + speed is rare. During September 11th when speed has crucial F-15's (Pilot interviews) went only mach 1.2
-As the eagle flies, it’s 153 miles from Cape Cod’s Otis Air National Guard Base to New York City. Duffy and Nash cruised at a supersonic Mach 1.2. “We got there as fast as we could,” Nash, now a lieutenant colonel with the Air Guard's 104th Fighter Wing at Barnes Regional Airport in Westfield, recalled recently.

9/11 10th Anniversary: F-15 pilot Dan Nash recalls response

Nash now flies with the 104th Fighter Wing in Westfield.

www.masslive.com

The F-15 has flown at mach 2 with 4 air to air missiles and couple of tanks.

You go mach you burn so much fuel even super cruising burns a lot of fuel and range of F-22 is very short when super cruising.

F-35 was perhaps a plane much cheaper and perhaps was something that can be shared with other allies

USA was not Keen to share F-22 Raptor tech with anyone

No. The F-22 program started last days of cold war it was never going to be exported to any of the allies so when it was built the software/source codes of the F-22 were not given a high level of encryption. When compared to the F-35 the F-22's tech is not as advanced. If anything a lot of the F-22 upgrades come from the F-35.

Cost was biggest factor for USA to retire F-22

The F-35 would cost a sht load more if it was a US only program capped around 200 F-35's

Chinese have after 15-20 years of their own research managed to create a pretty close capable plane similar to F-22

Chinese "luxury cars" look similar to German luxury cars but it doesn't mean is anywhere near the quality of German cars. Just because J-20 is "stealth" and has an AESA doesn't mean it is anywhere near the F-22's capability.

 

[Pioneer]

Lol. No. To quote General hostage “The F-35 doesn’t have the altitude, doesn’t have the speed [of the F-22], but it can beat the F-22 in stealth.”

F-22 service ceiling is 65k feet and combat ceiling of 50k feet. F-35 service and combat ceiling is 50k feet but guess what.... those heights will never be reached during combat. Once you start entering 50k feet altitude you are in danger of blacking out. You can't stay up that high without pressure suit.

F-35 will see the F-22 first. F-35 avionics is superior to F-22. When you research air wars you discover that flying at mach + speed is rare. During September 11th when speed has crucial F-15's (Pilot interviews) went only mach 1.2
-As the eagle flies, it’s 153 miles from Cape Cod’s Otis Air National Guard Base to New York City. Duffy and Nash cruised at a supersonic Mach 1.2. “We got there as fast as we could,” Nash, now a lieutenant colonel with the Air Guard's 104th Fighter Wing at Barnes Regional Airport in Westfield, recalled recently.

9/11 10th Anniversary: F-15 pilot Dan Nash recalls response

Nash now flies with the 104th Fighter Wing in Westfield.

www.masslive.com

The F-15 has flown at mach 2 with 4 air to air missiles and couple of tanks.

You go mach you burn so much fuel even super cruising burns a lot of fuel and range of F-22 is very short when super cruising.


No. The F-22 program started last days of cold war it was never going to be exported to any of the allies so when it was built the software/source codes of the F-22 were not given a high level of encryption. When compared to the F-35 the F-22's tech is not as advanced. If anything a lot of the F-22 upgrades come from the F-35.


The F-35 would cost a sht load more if it was a US only program capped around 200 F-35's


Chinese "luxury cars" look similar to German luxury cars but it doesn't mean is anywhere near the quality of German cars. Just because J-20 is "stealth" and has an AESA doesn't mean it is anywhere near the F-22's capability.

1. Chinese luxury cars are not similar to German luxury cars.

2. AMCA looks like little F-22, liitle J-31, little kf-21, little kaan. but AMCA is just a model.

3. I don't think a country that can't even manufacture qualified fighter jets is qualified to evaluate the J-20 and F-22.

 

[Bhojpuranchali]

1. Chinese luxury cars are not similar to German luxury cars.

2. AMCA looks like little F-22, liitle J-31, little kf-21, little kaan. but AMCA is just a model.

3. I don't think a country that can't even manufacture qualified fighter jets is qualified to evaluate the J-20 and F-22.

I am sorry to say this, but the quality of Indian-made products is considered far superior to Chinese products worldwide. Quality control in India is very strict, especially when it comes to military hardware. The Indian military never compromises on quality when purchasing fighter jets, tanks, warships, or other equipment. One of the many reasons for the delay in the Tejas fighter jet was that the Indian Air Force did not want to induct a partially finished jet and improve it later. They wanted a fully finished jet that met all of their requirements from day one.

 

[Deino]

I am sorry to say this, but the quality of Indian-made products is considered far superior to Chinese products worldwide. Quality control in India is very strict, especially when it comes to military hardware. The Indian military never compromises on quality when purchasing fighter jets, tanks, warships, or other equipment. One of the many reasons for the delay in the Tejas fighter jet was that the Indian Air Force did not want to induct a partially finished jet and improve it later. They wanted a fully finished jet that met all of their requirements from day one.

Again, look at build-quality of your beloved Tejas vs. a J-10C and J-20 and then tell me again, Indian quality is better?

 

[suriya]

Stealth tech is hype and overestimation.

 

[Pioneer]

I am sorry to say this, but the quality of Indian-made products is considered far superior to Chinese products worldwide. Quality control in India is very strict, especially when it comes to military hardware. The Indian military never compromises on quality when purchasing fighter jets, tanks, warships, or other equipment. One of the many reasons for the delay in the Tejas fighter jet was that the Indian Air Force did not want to induct a partially finished jet and improve it later. They wanted a fully finished jet that met all of their requirements from day one.

ah.......

I'm sorry to tell you this. India has nothing to do with the word “quality”.

Let's not talk about tejas, Arjun tanks etc are recognized as garbage in the world... Even if it's a car. I'm so sorry. If there is no Chinese technology. India can't even make cars

India? What is its relationship with the word "quality"?

 

[Pioneer]

It's funny every time I see Indians talking about "quality".

I can fly the J-10C over Mount Everest

https://m.douyin.com/share/video/7306424723745836307

Can you Indians fly Tejas?

 

[SolarWarden]

Who says you need to stay up high for any length of time when engaged in long range BVR fights?

Once you spot your target(AWACS, own radar etc) then you just go up to maximum altitude for a little time and then release your missile/s. After this you can always go back down again.

That is another big problem with the F-35 is its lower maximum altitude. As well as its low top speed, its lower max altitude will mean that it cannot give enough potential and kinetic energy to its missiles to reach as far as opposing planes.

Too many people are excusing the kinematic deficiences of the F-35 and remember it was NOT designed with AIR SUPREMACY in mind. It won't fare as well as a F-22 in this area due to this reason.

The F-35 can go mach 1.6 with two internal 2000lbs bombs and two aim-120 missiles it is not going to have an issue giving Aim-120Ds the kinetic energy it need in air to air combat load.

Understand this if it comes to J-20's vs F-35's the F-35 with its superior sensors, SA, SF, EW and ability to use other assets for targeting, it will always have the first shot against the J-20. You can't kill what you can't see/detect therefore no reason to be flying at mach speed bleeding fuel if you don't know where the F-35 is.

F-35 was created to be dominant many areas including air to air and F-22 pilots at Red Flag are finding out. Pilots know what they want...

@9:00

"Least impressive about F-22 F-35 is its speed and maneuverability it's all about SA.



J-20 is a one trick pony fighter with Low Observability the F-35 is more than a fighter and that is what all F-35 pilots say, and F-35 pilots that flew 4th gen and F-22's.

 

[Pingle]

This beast will be our answer to Chinese air force before they go airborne