Turkish Air Force | News & Discussions

[WARSIDT]

Nobody said F-16 OZGUR-2 will be ready in 2026
The calendar that has been said since the beginning is between 2028 and 2030

If Turkish F-16s are going to lose their value, so will Greek ones as well

Türkiye’s problem isn’t just Greece. Our main issue is our own financial load. The jets we are upgrading/planning, like @Merzifonlu said, put us into a dilemma. Greece can do whatever they want, it’s their money. Our money, our inventory, and we have bases all over the place, so having our air force depend heavily on basically a single jet type puts us in a risky situation considering the countries around us.


And please don’t answer this by bringing up KAAN. Our dates still aren’t solid. Even the people leading the project are forced to give dates. Even if we hit the engine development timeline we want, it will still need time to mature and become a fully reliable product. The jet itself is being built from scratch and every component is being developed from zero too. We can’t just pull a rabbit out of a hat with the testing phase. Our F-16 fleet still needs to stay active and effective.

 

[hyperman]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Foinikas]

@Foinikas ;

Of all these projects, the one that makes me most hesitant is the Özgür Project. I think the others will work out somehow. But seriously, if even the upgraded F-16s are going to lose their value, what are we going to do with the hundreds of F-16s in our inventory? I'm really curious to see what the decision-makers think about this.

I'm a bit surprised,because I thought other projects were more difficult and way more of the "propaganda" kind than reality. I thought Ozgur was relatively easy,after all MMM-E and hyperman were always so positive about it,as if it's almost done. They always mention it as if it's already started in a big scale. Now,yes I know...it's MMM-E and hyperman,but still out of all the projects,like hypersonic ballistic missiles and national submarine...

 

[Merzifonlu]

I'm a bit surprised,because I thought other projects were more difficult and way more of the "propaganda" kind than reality. I thought Ozgur was relatively easy,after all MMM-E and hyperman were always so positive about it,as if it's almost done. They always mention it as if it's already started in a big scale. Now,yes I know...it's MMM-E and hyperman,but still out of all the projects,like hypersonic ballistic missiles and national submarine...

I have no doubt they can technically achieve this; the components are almost complete, as advertised. My doubt is whether it's worth it. Because the cost/benefit ratio decreases over time. Trying to update a platform we don't own the copyrights for presents legal challenges. It's not the easiest project to implement, as you might think.

As for the other projects, they're not propaganda at all. We've heard the same nonsense, especially from you Greeks, about all our projects: "They're making propaganda." Don't you understand yet: we're not making propaganda.

We didn't make propaganda for ships, drones, missiles, or even Altay, the longest-running project. They're all in mass production now, aren't they? We don't make propaganda for engines or planes either. And hypersonic missiles are already in the inventory, with a CEP value of centimeter precision! As for submarines, we'll focus on that once we resolve the aircraft issue; there's no rush right now.

In summary, may be @MMM-E acts like a "salesman" on this forum, but we don't make propaganda. Don't get the wrong idea by looking at him!

 

[Foinikas]

I have no doubt they can technically achieve this; the components are almost complete, as advertised. My doubt is whether it's worth it. Because the cost/benefit ratio decreases over time. Trying to update a platform we don't own the copyrights for presents legal challenges. It's not the easiest project to implement, as you might think.

As for the other projects, they're not propaganda at all. We've heard the same nonsense, especially from you Greeks, about all our projects: "They're making propaganda." Don't you understand yet: we're not making propaganda.

We didn't make propaganda for ships, drones, missiles, or even Altay, the longest-running project. They're all in mass production now, aren't they? We don't make propaganda for engines or planes either. And hypersonic missiles are already in the inventory, with a CEP value of centimeter precision! As for submarines, we'll focus on that once we resolve the aircraft issue; there's no rush right now.

In summary, may be @MMM-E acts like a "salesman" on this forum, but we don't make propaganda. Don't get the wrong idea by looking at him!

I keep telling people "the Turks are doing this,they Turks are doing that,we're left behind at least 10-15 years in some things",many know that and that's why they nag in forums(against the government's wrong moves and stalling defence procurements),
but so many others just laugh it off and go like "The Turks? That's all lies." or "Turkish missile? Hah...what quality?"

The biggest mistake is to underestimate the enemy. Any enemy. By calling someone a "sandn***a" or an "orc" or in this case "Mongols,memets",whether it's a zio-zio or a caveman from Afghanistan,it's stupid.

Now,about Turkey. I think the truth is in the middle. There's massive progress,but not to the point where Turkey has suddenly become a superpower in 4-5 years. We see a lot of the products out there,they are used by various armies,they are working. But I think there's also a lot of propaganda. Definitely,you can't have unbelievable quality with ridiculously cheap prices and all that in relatively new technological breakthroughs in Turkish defence industry. Sure,the Turkish defence industry has been working for decades,but the last 10 years there's been a record after record breaking in almost everything,all at once. That's weird. In any case,I'm not saying it's....IRGC style propaganda where they present a new tank every 3 years and call it the best of the best or a mockup aircraft and say "we have a 5th generation aircraft". I'm saying there's also a lot of government propaganda in this. Just like you mentioned with the dates of KAAN for example.

One thing is for sure though: It's not the invincible,undefeated,ingenious,best in the world picture that a couple of members here constantly describe(and with no chance of debating them).

So yes,in a big part I agree with you,but I think somewhere in the middle. Not as MMM-E or hyperman describe it

 

[Flotilla]

Similar to the situation PAF was in post 2001.. US turned back on the taps and offered F-16C/Ds as well as surplus A/Bs to PAF. We took them but carried on with JF-17 knowing restrictions would be round the corner again (and we were proven right again)

Turks have learnt this lesson themselves and of course from PAF, when they helped us with our F-16 fleet and training during 90s sanctions

I agree.

Moreover we can see same trend on other big regional air forces like Egypt and even Saudi Arabia. If they want to have real autonomy they should purchase chinese aircrafts. The F16 diplomacy kills military autonomy and Egypt would eventually experience this in a hypothetical engagement with Israel also. That is why they´re purchasing some european fighters and US is desperately to sell them F15s. To keep them inside their vicious circle of dependence.

Hope Turkey can develop their indigenous engine. I am sure US won´t allow export of F110 or other engines for KAAN. Godspeed you!.

 

[hyperman]

Definitely,you can't have unbelievable quality with ridiculously cheap prices

you can, why do you think Turkey wins so many NATO tenders, b/c it beats them on price. Labor is cheaper, raw materials are cheaper.

 

[Merzifonlu]

but the last 10 years there's been a record after record breaking in almost everything,all at once. That's weird.

It didn't happen overnight; there are certain bottlenecks in these projects. For example, engines, sensors, nanomachines, etc. If you overcome these, you'll be able to reach the next bottleneck. This is how technology advances.

The best example of this in our country is the KTJ series turbojet missile engines. We thought developing these would be completed in 3-4 years, but that wasn't the case. It took 10 years! Because it took that long, we also developed other technologies during this time, such as nano-accelerometers, thermal sensors, thermal batteries, etc. Some of these were even ready in the 6th or 7th year, but they were put on hold because the project engine wasn't available. Once the KTJ 3200/1750 engines was ready, and the other components were ready, the missiles seemed to appear "out of nowhere".

A similar situation occurred with the Altay tank. Did you know that when the first Altay Project was planned, 80% of the tank was comprised of foreign components? So much so that even the massive gear that turns the turret was to be imported from Germany. Everyone's talking about the power pack, but the truth is that during this time, almost all of the tank's foreign-made components have been localized. When the power pack was procured from South Korea, it felt like the tank suddenly appeared. They probably think we're getting everything from Korea. LOL If we can overcome the transmission bottleneck, the BATU Power Pack will enter mass production. And then, we'll be one of only four or five countries in the world capable of producing tanks from A to Z.

The same thing will happen with turbofan engines. Don't be surprised if these engines suddenly appear around the time we mentioned. We've been working on these engine sub-technologies for decades.

And don't forget, once the bottlenecks in TF35000 engine and Batu's transmission is overcome, domestically produced turbine systems for ships will suddenly emerge as well. Because another bottlenecks will have been overcome.

 

[hyperman]

Saudis allegedly being told they have to get permission before moving the jet from one airbase to another in their own country. lol

If the Saudis don't take a deal, then I think Turkey should double its efforts to bring Saudi into the KAAN deal, make them an offer no one is offering them. I think with the amount of money they have they can place a massive order enough to pay for the entire KAAN project and probably more, and that money can be used for 6th gen development. It will also reduce the per plane price depending on how many units they buy.

 

[Eşbah]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

I'm still not fully convinced the Saudis will get the jets.

 

[wangdefa]

My friend boasted to me that he is a master chef who can cook many cuisines, especially my favorite Cantonese cuisine, and has been well received by many users. And when I was eager to taste his cooking, he ordered a takeout for me.
Now, it's like this.

 

[Watandar]

Saudi F35 will likely be downgraded version and lacking in abilities compared with Israeli F35. Israel will use the Saudi F35 to get another free squadron of F35 from America. This is a storm in a teacup.

 

[MMM-E]

Turkish F-35 vs Israeli F-35​

Israel has a unique position in the project because it is the only country that is allowed to equip the F-35 with its avionics and software

on the other hand Turkish Airforce F-35s always will be dependent on the US

The F-35 like as a flying computer
The internal programming of the F-35 includes more than 8 million lines of code, more than 4 times as much as the F-22


Israeli Airforce can use F-35s against Turkiye
but Turkish F-35s can not even take off without American permission

1-- The MDL ( Mission data loads ) has to be loaded into the F-35’s onboard computer before each mission and has to be updated after each mission

2-- All F-35s including those from partner countries must update their mission files and ALIS ( Autonomic Logistics Information System ) profiles before and after each flight

Only the US is capable of programming the MDL and ALIS for all F-35s


flying computer F-35s will be under American control
why is Israel so crying we dont understand

 

[Foinikas]

It didn't happen overnight; there are certain bottlenecks in these projects. For example, engines, sensors, nanomachines, etc. If you overcome these, you'll be able to reach the next bottleneck. This is how technology advances.

The best example of this in our country is the KTJ series turbojet missile engines. We thought developing these would be completed in 3-4 years, but that wasn't the case. It took 10 years! Because it took that long, we also developed other technologies during this time, such as nano-accelerometers, thermal sensors, thermal batteries, etc. Some of these were even ready in the 6th or 7th year, but they were put on hold because the project engine wasn't available. Once the KTJ 3200/1750 engines was ready, and the other components were ready, the missiles seemed to appear "out of nowhere".

A similar situation occurred with the Altay tank. Did you know that when the first Altay Project was planned, 80% of the tank was comprised of foreign components? So much so that even the massive gear that turns the turret was to be imported from Germany. Everyone's talking about the power pack, but the truth is that during this time, almost all of the tank's foreign-made components have been localized. When the power pack was procured from South Korea, it felt like the tank suddenly appeared. They probably think we're getting everything from Korea. LOL If we can overcome the transmission bottleneck, the BATU Power Pack will enter mass production. And then, we'll be one of only four or five countries in the world capable of producing tanks from A to Z.

The same thing will happen with turbofan engines. Don't be surprised if these engines suddenly appear around the time we mentioned. We've been working on these engine sub-technologies for decades.

And don't forget, once the bottlenecks in TF35000 engine and Batu's transmission is overcome, domestically produced turbine systems for ships will suddenly emerge as well. Because another bottlenecks will have been overcome.

I can't disagree with you. I know especially the Altay passed from a thousand waves,like we say here. I remember back in...when was it,the late 2000s I think,when it was announced that Turkey would cooperate with Korea to make Altay,it was a matter of big pride for Turks online. It took many years to actually come to its modern form and it finally matured,being like you said,mostly indigenous to almost completely.

 

[Merzifonlu]

The original plan for Altay was to start with 80% foreign components and gradually localize them over approximately 20 years. Of course, in the meantime, current politicians could conduct their own political propaganda without straining the budget too much. Just like Özal did with the F-16. F-16s were actually just being assembled, but Özal was able to very successfully market this to ordinary Turkish voters as "We're building our own fighter."

When Germany and the USA imposed embargoes, we had to actually build the tank instead of pretending to build it! The localization and mass production projects, planned to span 20 years, had to be completed within 8 years. This strained the budget even more than planned. This was actually the only drawback we encountered with the Altay.

The Kaan project isn't progressing this way. Since we couldn't purchase foreign-made products from the very beginning, we had to design and manufacture every component except the engine and ejection seat.

Oh, and by the way, let me give you an update on the TF35000 engine: TEI filed a patent for this engine on October 6, 2025. This means the engine's design is complete, and the prototype is likely nearing completion.