Turkish Air Force | News & Discussions

[hyperman]

Tourism and specific surgeries as well as Artillery shells and some ammo,are completely different from all the usual high-tech stuff MMM-E is advertising,it's still a weird thing how it's supposed to be super-quality and up to par(if not better)with Western equipment and yet be way cheaper. And I'm not talking about this only,the have been various products MMM-E has claimed are cheaper and cost effective to things the West and East are selling.

By the way,no,not India,I meant mostly Russia and China as in East. Maybe North Korea too,you can put North Korea too.

its not cheaper than Russian and Chinese or North Korean, I don't think he claimed that. It is of higher quality than Russian and North Korean though, i can't speak on the the Chinese issue, b/c it varies from product to product. There are some Chinese products that aren't great, then there are certain Chinese products that are even better than Western products(for example EVs)

Cost of production is different, why don't you get that. You ever dealt with French Labor demands and pricing? lol

A worker in Turkey does the same work as a worker in France, but doesn't mean that b/c the French guy is getting paid more.

 

[Foinikas]

i can't speak on the the Chinese issue, b/c it varies from product to product.

That true. They make some quality things and they make a lot of trash as well.

 

[hyperman]

What makes it cheaper?

B/c its produced in Turkey where production costs are lower. lol

Why do western Automakers try to build cars in Turkey and then reexport them back into Europe? Production costs and cost of labor. lol

VolksWagon CEO is currently trying to build all his cars in China and then reexport them back into europe, all so he doesn't have to deal with German labor costs, not a difficult thing to understand. Of course this is much harder to do with China b/c of trade and embargoes, but Turkey having similar production costs has a customs arrangement with Europe, which allow for tariff free trade, its not a difficult concept my friend..

edit: correction Herbert Diess was fired b/c of the labor dispute and tension around trying to move stuff to china, and Volkswagon may have abandoned plans to move more production to China.

 

[Foinikas]

B/c its produced in Turkey where production costs are lower. lol

Why do western Automakers try to build cars in Turkey and then reexport them back into Europe? Production costs and cost of labor. lol

VolksWagon CEO is currently trying to build all his cars in China and then reexport them back into europe, all so he doesn't have to deal with German labor costs, not a difficult thing to understand. Of course this is much harder to do with China b/c of trade and embargoes, but Turkey having similar production costs has a customs arrangement with Europe, which allow for tariff free trade, its not a difficult concept my friend..

I don't know,it's a bit fishy.

I wonder if they will use more equipment in Ukraine to test them.

 

[MMM-E]

"Turkiye produce 485 SOM Cruise Missiles"

What does that mean? Turkey will produce? Can produce? Has produced? Could potentially produce during a conflict? Will at some point be able to produce?

Everything

Turkiye produced over 250 SOM Cruise Missiles until now and will produce total of 485 SOM
mass production continues

We solved the most important problem
We dont need turbojet engines from France anymore
Turkiye has started producing KTJ-1700 and KTJ-3200 turbojet Engines to power CAKIR , SOM and ATMACA Cruise Missiles

Turbojet engine producers in NATO

USA : Teledyne and Williams
France : SAFRAN
Turkiye : KALE-ARGE and TEI

SOM and ATMACA Cruise Missiles : KTJ-3200 turbojet engine
CAKIR Cruise Missile : KTJ-1750 turbojet engine
KARA-ATMACA Cruise Missile : KTJ-3700 turbojet engine

And if needed in a conflict , Turkiye can produce more SOM . CAKIR , ATMACA Cruise Missiles
Because Its full of indigenous

IIR - RF seekers
KTJ-1700 and KTJ-3200 turbojet Engines
JP-10 type rocket fuel
KEMENT tactical Data Link
Inertial Measurement Unit
etc
etc

 

[hyperman]

I don't know,it's a bit fishy.

Its not fishy, its economics.

A doctor in the US makes more money than a doctor in the UK, this isn't b/c he is so much better than the doctor in the US. Its b/c the prices in healthcare are inflated in the US for various reason.

Cost of Labor in France is higher than Italy, doesn't mean the French guys are making better stuff necessarily.

At a certain price point, middle income economies with specialities in high tech sectors have an advantage over high income economies in exports of the same products.

You hit that sweet spot of essentially the same quality but the materials and labor costs being so much less, the product ends up being more competitve in export markets, then you add on that Turkish currency devaluation, and it takes it to an even more competitive level. There is a reason why every quarterly cycle we see new announcements of record breaking exports, b/c while the inflation is fking people domestically and making shit harder for importing things in dollars. Its raining money for exporters. its a double edged sword.

 

[MMM-E]

Its not fishy, its economics.

Cost effective solution = to use cheaper weapon to do the same task

1 KEMANKES-2 or 1 SCALP can harm a PATRIOT AD System

1 KEMANKES-2 = $50.000-75.000 ( estimated )
1 SCALP Missile = $2,5 million

Greece can not use 50 SCALP Missiles for swarm attack
but Turkiye can use even 100 KEMANKES-2 for swarm attack

1 PATRIOT Battery = $1,1 billion
Radar + 8 launchers + 32 missiles

100 KEMANKES-2 ( $5-7,5 million ) will be enough to destroy 1 PATRIOT Battery = $1,1 billion

 

[Eşbah]

Everything

Turkiye produced over 250 SOM Cruise Missiles until now and will produce total of 485 SOM
mass production continues

We solved the most important problem
We dont need turbojet engines from France anymore
Turkiye has started producing KTJ-1700 and KTJ-3200 turbojet Engines to power CAKIR , SOM and ATMACA Cruise Missiles
View attachment 47987

Turbojet engine producers in NATO

USA : Teledyne and Williams
France : SAFRAN
Turkiye : KALE-ARGE and TEI

SOM and ATMACA Cruise Missiles : KTJ-3200 turbojet engine
CAKIR Cruise Missile : KTJ-1750 turbojet engine
KARA-ATMACA Cruise Missile : KTJ-3700 turbojet engine
View attachment 47989


And if needed in a conflict , Turkiye can produce more SOM . CAKIR , ATMACA Cruise Missiles
Because Its full of indigenous

IIR - RF seekers
KTJ-1700 and KTJ-3200 turbojet Engines
JP-10 type rocket fuel
KEMENT tactical Data Link
Inertial Measurement Unit
etc
etc

Doesn't the Czech Republic produce engines, too? I believe the companies name is PBS Group? There're still some potent companies around in Eastern Europe. Don't underestimate them.

 

[Eşbah]

Cost effective solution = to use cheaper weapon to do the same task

1 KEMANKES-2 or 1 SCALP can harm a PATRIOT AD System

1 KEMANKES-2 = $50.000-75.000 ( estimated )
1 SCALP Missile = $2,5 million

Greece can not use 50 SCALP Missiles for swarm attack
but Turkiye can use even 100 KEMANKES-2 for swarm attack

1 PATRIOT Battery = $1,1 billion
Radar + 8 launchers + 32 missiles

100 KEMANKES-2 ( $5-7,5 million ) will be enough to destroy 1 PATRIOT Battery = $1,1 billion

I understand your perspective but using Kemankeş for swarm attacks is still a waste of time, financial resources and energy. You need something that is even cheaper and easier to replenish than Kemankeş if you want to overwhelm your potential adversary.

However, our drone doctrine doesn't really include saturation attacks and swarming at this point in time but I know they've changed their minds after witnessing the Ukrainian War and the Iranian response to Israel. We adapt fast and accurately, that's our biggest advantage.

Plus, the Greeks are making strategic mistakes by switching to extremely expensive high value weapon systems that can't be replaced swiftly and take up a large chunk of their budget.

I admit, for a brief period I thought that Greece is going to have the upper hand on a very fundamental level but than they listened to Western businessman instead of their own military experts. Big mistake.

The Greek public hasn't understood yet that the next decade is basically Türkiye gaining momentum to become truly independent in defence matters. You either build your own military forces in a meaningful way right now or you basically have to succumb to Turkish dominance.

 

[MMM-E]

Doesn't the Czech Republic produce engines, too? I believe the companies name is PBS Group? There're still some potent companies around in Eastern Europe. Don't underestimate them.

Maybe for target Drones
but I haven't heard of them powering any cruise Missiles

There are PBS TJ-200 as like our TEI TJ-300

Turkish IL170 turbojet engine power KEMANKES Missile

Also there are IL-600 and IL-1600 turbojet Engines

 

[Foinikas]

Greece can not use 50 SCALP Missiles for swarm attack
but Turkiye can use even 100 KEMANKES-2 for swarm attack

Oh? I thought your superweapons were not for "tiny Greece",like you and other of your compatriots often claim,but for bigger fish.

 

[MMM-E]

I understand your perspective but using Kemankeş for swarm attacks is still a waste of time, financial resources and energy. You need something that is even cheaper and easier to replenish than Kemankeş if you want to overwhelm your potential adversary.

There are cheaper Kamikaze Drones than KEMANKES-2
for example 80km DELI or 60 km ALPAGUT



We can use them to hit Tanks , IFVs , Howitzers , MLRS even mobile AD Systems
But we can not use them to hit PATRIOTs in Skyros and S300s in Crete which are threat to our F-16s in a conflict

There will always be the potential for France to provoke Greece against Turkiye
and they signed a defense agreement together to fight Turkiye


so 200-250 km KEMANKES1/2 perfect and cost effective solution to hit PATRIOTs and S300s

SOM and ATMACA Cruise Missiles are expensive as well as TAYFUN Ballistic Missile

We can use 50 KEMANKES-2 in price of 2 SCALP Cruise Missiles
and PATRIOT can not stop a swarm attack of 50 KEMANKES-2


Also we have many cost effective munitions-missiles such as 150+ km IHA-230 supersonic Missile , 180+ km KUZGUN-TJ Missile with IIR or RF seeker also 250+ km KGK-LR with IIR seeker under development

And long range Kamikaze Drones
200 km SIMSEK
500 km AZAB
700 km SUPER SIMSEK
800 km KARGI

 

[Foinikas]

Plus, the Greeks are making strategic mistakes by switching to extremely expensive high value weapon systems that can't be replaced swiftly and take up a large chunk of their budget.

Which ones do you mean? Because I'll explain,depending on which ones you're talking about.

I admit, for a brief period I thought that Greece is going to have the upper hand on a very fundamental level but than they listened to Western businessman instead of their own military experts. Big mistake.

Which period? Are you talking about the 2019-2021 period or...?

The Greek public hasn't understood yet that the next decade is basically Türkiye gaining momentum to become truly independent in defence matters. You either build your own military forces in a meaningful way right now or you basically have to succumb to Turkish dominance.

The public(at least the people who read or know about defence and geopolitics)know that,but we're all frustrated because the governments constantly "sabotage" every real effort for the development of a serious defence industry. One small example...we've been hearing big words from the MoD,almost a year now about the creation of two UAVs (specifically Archytas and Gripas),for about 2-3 years these and a few other UAVs have been in development and still not out for production or even demonstrations to the public. The MoD keeps talking and talking about how we will make an "ecosystem" and center for creation and development of military technology etc. However,there are already Greek Cypriot and mainland Greek companies which make UCAVs and loitering munitions,they cooperate with other countries on the matter...and the wankers here do nothing about it.

They keep talking and talking about the "need to develop the defence industry",without actually helping and cooperating with Greek companies that already produce things we need.

 

[MMM-E]

The world's first UAV-mounted remote radar and communications jamming system ASOJ 234-U


*Radar electronic support
*Radar electronic attack
*Communication electronic support
*Communication electronic attack

 

[Eşbah]

{#ElectronicWarfare} World’s first UAV SOJ! Development of Radar and Communication Stand Off Jammer integrated on Bayraktar #AKINCI UAV, ASOJ-234U is coming to change the game in field. Within the scope of ASOJ-234U. Radar Electronic Support / Attack, Communication Electronic Support /Attack #BAYKAR #ASELSAN