Cash gk
Elite Member
You’re bringing up claims about China’s treatment of its Muslim population. That narrative largely comes from Western and allied media, many of whom themselves are actively supporting or justifying what is happening in Palestine today. Not a single Muslim country has formally declared this an established genocide. I reject that comparison and the way it is selectively used.I agree with you that it was if anything,a bad move by the PM. However,it also was a chance defensively. But I agree that it is ironic,that Greece which stood with Arabs for decades,had the PM take pics with Netanyahu at the time period most of the EU was critical of Israel or at least reluctant to openly approach them and be friendly.
My personal opinion is we should have gone full French from the beginning. In the 2019-2021 period it was the French who supported us against Erdogan's provocations and threats. I don't know if you followed events,but in 2020 we reached a point were war or a hot incident were very possible.
So back then,it was the French who supported us warmly from the entire EU and NATO. Germans,Italians,Spanish,Dutch,British,Belgians,Austrians,Poles,Scandinavians all either did nothing,said little or outright cooperated with Erdogan.
On the contrary,the French supported us,our interests aligned and we got the Rafale in no time,we signed for the FDI frigates and we also signed a mutual defence agreement.
The French were eager to cooperate with us and the logical thing,apart from sentimental,would have been to continue this cooperation and friendship deeper.
And right when we were talking about Gowind corvettes...everything stops. In 2022-2023 the government ditches the French and goes American. Then the Biden administration and the notorious Blinken list (equipment to be given to Greece)turn out to be a disappointment. By that time,Mitsotakis has appointed Dendias as the new MoD (in summer 2023)and everything goes from bad to worse.
So,our air defence needs replacement. We have Soviet/Russian systems that need to be replaced because they are obsolete and we can't get any upgrades now nor any spare parts and the missiles will expire soon. In general we have to replace the
We should have gone for MICA VL,SAMP/T which utilize missiles familiar to us,since the Air Force uses MICA on the Mirage and the Navy will be using Aster-30 on the FDI HN.
- OSA AK/AKM
- Tor-M1
- S-300PMU1
- I-HAWK PIP III
- Skyguard VELOS (same as the Pakistani Skyguard Aspide,but with Sea Sparrow missiles)
On top of that,we could have also gone for Mistral-3 manpads and Rapid Fire. In any case,we could have cooperated more with the French. And more closely. Since Germany has gone back to actively supporting Turkey and promoting them,as well as Britain and NATO'S current chief Rutte. We and the French could have become a counterbalance to that.
But there come the Israelis in a moment where they actually have problems with Turkey(apart from everyone else they've bombed). Turkey's been expanding here and there. Talking about Blue Homeland and heavy investments and influence in Syria. Selling weapons to Jolani's government. Taking out the Kurds who have been a thorn in the side of Turkey for decades. Establishing a base in Libya,getting access to the horn of Africa. Trying to get nuclear power with the help of Russia.
And during all the threats,actual threats,publically,on camera,in interviews,in speeches,
by Erdogan and his ministers and his army leaders and his parliamentary ally Bahçeli,
the Jews come and offer us quality weapons that we needed yesterday. Not today,we needed them yesterday and didn't have them. So the Armed Forces are talking about Spyder AiO,Barak MX,David's Sling,LORA and maybe more. The Israelis sweeten the deals with ToT. I don't know what kind of ToT but whatever it is...good.
Yes,it's awkward,yes it's bad. Netanyahu's government has been eliminating Palestinians in Gaza and the West Bank. But since our government won't buy any French or Norwegian/Swedish AA systems,we might as well go with Israeli ones.
There's no defence pact,there's no treaty with Israel. Just a rapproachment because both Greeks(mainland and Cypriot)and Israelis see Turks as a threat. And Turks are a threat because every time there's talk of a project that will help Greece or Cyprus or Egypt(put the Jews aside)to prosper,to make money,to give them a chance to get out of any loans,there comes Erdogan and his goons and say "You can't do anything without Turkey's approval. We're a big country,we can't be ignored. You either include us or we'll take action".
But we haven't aligned or allied with India. Don't listen to Indian propaganda or that Turkish admiral. We don't have any kind of close relations.
In conclusion,tell me: If your country's interests and in the case of Cyprus,their physical existence apart from their interests,were threatened and you had no help from any other ally(for us neither the EU nor NATO stood up to contain Turkish expansion,on the contrary they encourage it),would you care more about Gaza and a people who the last 10 or so years have been pro-Turkish and against you or your survival?
Pakistan chose controversial PRC as an ally in the region back in the 70s. Maoist regime. Remember,they slaughtered millions,way more than what the Israelis have. They persecuted Islam,yet there you are. The Young Turks government chose the Bolsheviks as an ally when nobody would help them,after WWI. The Bolsheviks who also killed millions and persecuted Islam. And yet they supported Ataturk and Ataturk didn't say "it's not morally right".
Sorry,I elaborated way too much
That said, you are absolutely right about one thing: it is your country, and you have every right to buy whatever weapons you believe are necessary for your security. That is not my objection.
My point is about morality.
When a country knowingly stands with a state that is committing genocide, it sends a message to the world about its moral position. Security decisions do not exist in a vacuum — they reflect values as well as interests.
Countries and people stand with you in difficult times when you stand on moral principles, not only when interests align. You chose to prioritise security over morality. That is your right but it also defines the moral stance you project.
That is the core of my argument, and I believe that is where this discussion should end.
My Orthodox brother a foot soldier,
Same with the Bolsheviks who aided the Young Turks and Turkey up until the '30s or '40s.
....
