U-214/S-80 vs Hangor

[Yasser76]

Once again, no one knows.
Chinese weapons are nearly all non combat proven.
twenty five years ago, a friend of mine had the opportunity to visit a chinese frigate (where, when, how... I can't give you more details) : it was quite modern outside, but with some internal waterproof walls were made of chipboard wood !
Electronic ? how is the REAL status of their AESA? how potent are their electronical counter measures?
Weapons ? PL-10 and PL-15 missiles are more or less potent than last gen AMRAAM ?

My opinion is that chinese weapon systems, as their russian inspiration friends, are not that impressive. See the Ukrainian war results : S400, russian artillery, russian T72, 80, 90 not a match. The far bigger russian air force is not able to have the aerial supremacy.

"a friend of mine". OK....

 

[Oscar]

The only reason Pakistan bought the Type 39 Yuan class Subs was because it was the only one they could afford , that too with a 12 year soft loan.

Pakistan had been operating french Agosta 70 subs since 1980, they are operating the Agosta90B subs since 1997.
Scorpene is the next generation to the Agosta90B and would have been the logical upgrade for PN had India not bought them in 2007 .
India paid 4.2 Billion USD for 6 Scorpene subs
Pakistan is paying 5.2 Billion USD for 8 Type 39 Yuan class Subs

Their is not much difference in the purchase price per unit .

With only advantage of China being that they would agree for a soft loan and the French would not

Not completely accurate from the funding perspective - the Scorpenes were expensive but the focus was on German offering until they simply said no.

 

[Pingle]

I remember deadly Russian Amur too was a part of this competition.... it is okay we now can't rely on Russia on big ticket items but imagine Russia wasn't occupied with Ukraine then these Amurs would have been so deadly even against western SSKs...

 

[BP2]

India paid 4.2 Billion USD for 6 Scorpene subs
Pakistan is paying 5.2 Billion USD for 8 Type 39 Yuan class Subs

Their is not much difference in the purchase price per unit .

6 Scorpene made in India.
Where are built the 8 Type 39 ? Pak or China?

 

[BP2]

"a friend of mine". OK....

You are free to agree or not. I will not change my life.

 

[Yasser76]

6 Scorpene made in India.
Where are built the 8 Type 39 ? Pak or China?

Both. 4 in each.

 

[silicon0000]

6 Scorpene made in India.
Where are built the 8 Type 39 ? Pak or China?

4 in China and 4 in Pakistan.

 

[Archie]

6 Scorpene made in India.
Where are built the 8 Type 39 ? Pak or China?

India is buying 9 Scorpenes in total and
5 are Already in service , 1 is undergoing sea trials,
Indian Navy is currently negotiating for 3 more Super Scorpenes, which will come with AIP and SCALP Cruise Missiles apart from an improved combat management system and Sonar .
These 3 Scorpenes are expected to cost around 1.2 Billion USD each

The first 6 Scorpenes will begin getting the AIP system as well as other internnal upgrades starting 2025-26 as and when they go in for refit .

But they are unlikely to get the SCALP Cruise Missiles since the Navy made the stupid decision to buy 36 Exocet antiship missiles for these subs in 2012 and Navy cannot justify Replacing them before 2030, by which time DRDO will have it's SLCM Brahmos ready

 

[Yasser76]

India is buying 9 Scorpenes in total and
5 are Already in service , 1 is undergoing sea trials,
Indian Navy is currently negotiating for 3 more Super Scorpenes, which will come with AIP and SCALP Cruise Missiles apart from an improved combat management system and Sonar .
These 3 Scorpenes are expected to cost around 1.2 Billion USD each

The first 6 Scorpenes will begin getting the AIP system as well as other internnal upgrades starting 2025-26 as and when they go in for refit .

But they are unlikely to get the SCALP Cruise Missiles since the Navy made the stupid decision to buy 36 Exocet antiship missiles for these subs in 2012 and Navy cannot justify Replacing them before 2030, by which time DRDO will have it's SLCM Brahmos ready

No, India is buying 6. 3 have not even be signed for yet.

Yes, with short ranged lightweight Russia Torpedos and 50km Exocet, weapons package in these subs is old and short ranged

 

[BP2]

Both. 4 in each.

The cost of a locally made weapon (sub, jet, MBT, etc...) is always higher or highly higher than in the original country.
In the Indian case 100% locally assembled. "only" 50% for Pakistan case.

 

[BP2]

India is buying 9 Scorpenes in total and
5 are Already in service , 1 is undergoing sea trials,
Indian Navy is currently negotiating for 3 more Super Scorpenes, which will come with AIP and SCALP Cruise Missiles apart from an improved combat management system and Sonar .
These 3 Scorpenes are expected to cost around 1.2 Billion USD each

The last batch of 3 is, for me, not inked.
As the Rafale M deal : all is "bargaining" hard....

India bargaining hard for better deal with France for Rs 50,000 crore-plus Rafale Marine jets contract

India and France are negotiating over Rs 50,000 crore for Rafale Marine jets including Astra missiles and enhancements. The jets, to be based at INS Dega, Vishakhapatnam, will operate from INS Vikrant and INS Vikramaditya. The 10-12 day negotiation, involving the Directorate General of Armament...

economictimes.indiatimes.com

 

[BP2]

But they are unlikely to get the SCALP Cruise Missiles since the Navy made the stupid decision to buy 36 Exocet antiship missiles for these subs in 2012 and Navy cannot justify Replacing them before 2030, by which time DRDO will have it's SLCM Brahmos ready

Exocet is an anti ship missile, when Scalp Naval is a 1000km range cruise missile for land attack.
Not the same usage. Note that last gen exocet can be used against groud target thanks to GPS positionning (10 meters accuracy), but 50 to 180km range depending on model. Far from the 1000km Scalp Naval range.

 

[Yasser76]

Exocet is an anti ship missile, when Scalp Naval is a 1000km range cruise missile for land attack.
Not the same usage. Note that last gen exocet can be used against groud target thanks to GPS positionning (10 meters accuracy), but 50 to 180km range depending on model. Far from the 1000km Scalp Naval range.

Sub launched Exocet is 50km range, no sub wants to be that near the enemy coast....

 

[Archie]

No, India is buying 6. 3 have not even be signed for yet.

Yes, with short ranged lightweight Russia Torpedos and 50km Exocet, weapons package in these subs is old and short ranged

Exocet SM40 blk 3 have range of 180-200km
50km range Exocet SM39 are used by Argentina, Peru, Malaysia and even Agosta70 of Pakistan

As far as Torpedoes are concerned

They use Russian Heavyweight Torpedoes, these same torpedoes are carried by our Kilo class and U209 class Subs as well as Arihant class SSBN

 

[Yasser76]

Exocet MM40 blk 3 have range of 180-200km
50km range Exocet SM39 are used by Argentina, Peru, Malaysia and even Agosta70 of Pakistan

You cannot use MM40 on a sub, it is a ship launched weapon. India does not have this weapon.

The Sub launched Exocet is the SM39, it has a range of 50km.

Other then those facts your post is correct....