USA Rethinking the India-Pakistan Dynamic.

[hasssanali8998]

The money saved can be spent on the well being of the Pakistani awaam

your country is literally an oligarchy now

 

[Rationale]

your country is literally an oligarchy now

It is a democracy . That is why a chaiwallah can become the Prime Minister and have all the oligarchs at his beck and all. As much as people may disagree with him or hate him, no sensible person who is familiar with India can deny he has eradicated corruption to a large extent and made a fundamental difference to the lives of the poorest and least advantaged in India. That is why he continues to enjoy widespread popularity in India and commands respect around the world.

 

[Frogen]

It is a democracy . That is why a chaiwallah can become the Prime Minister and have all the oligarchs at his beck and all. As much as people may disagree with him or hate him, no sensible person who is familiar with India can deny he has eradicated corruption to a large extent and made a fundamental difference to the lives of the poorest and least advantaged in India. That is why he continues to enjoy widespread popularity in India and commands respect around the world.

I don't believe Modi has earned India international respect. He simply happened to rise at a time when China was also rising, and the West needed India as cannon fodder to contain China. Everyone knows that Indians love flattery—if saying a few nice words can get India to sacrifice itself, that's a deal the West is more than happy to make.

YouTube is filled with videos showing the West’s real attitude toward India. Even Trump once lost control and let it slip.

 

[Rationale]

I don't believe Modi has earned India international respect. He simply happened to rise at a time when China was also rising, and the West needed India as cannon fodder to contain China. Everyone knows that Indians love flattery—if saying a few nice words can get India to sacrifice itself, that's a deal the West is more than happy to make.

YouTube is filled with videos showing the West’s real attitude toward India. Even Trump once lost control and let it slip.

Modi is the legitimate leader of the Indian people who have voted him into office. He is not a puppet like Showbaaz , even whose name is probably unknown to Trump.

 

[Pakistanithinktank]

Modi is the legitimate leader of the Indian people who have voted him into office. He is not a puppet like Showbaaz , even whose name is probably unknown to Trump.

No one is denying that Modi was elected through a democratic process. That’s a fact. But democracy isn’t just about elections, it’s about institutions, accountability, and the rule of law. Pakistan, unfortunately, is trapped in a hybrid model where the ballot box is merely decorative, and real power flows through unelected corridors.

Calling Showbaz a puppet isn’t an insult, it’s a diagnosis. When prime ministers are installed, not elected; when policies are dictated by unelected generals; and when dissent is crushed through media blackouts and midnight raids, you don’t have democracy, you have managed optics.

The real tragedy isn’t that Trump doesn’t know Showbaz’s name. It’s that millions of Pakistanis don’t know who truly governs them. Until Pakistan dismantles this establishment stranglehold, no leader elected or imposed will have the legitimacy or autonomy to lead with vision.

If Pakistan wants to be taken seriously on the global stage, it must stop pretending and start reforming. Real democracy isn’t just about voting, it’s about who gets to decide after the votes are counted. And right now, that decision isn’t in the hands of the people.

 

[nahtanbob]

Saw on an Indian channel just yesterday that 800 million Indians can't afford to feed themselves and thus the Indian govt gives them free/subsidized food. 800 million!!

If 800 million are getting food stamps, 700 million are not. What matters, I suppose, is the ability of the Indian state to generate money and food to conduct its version of the food stamp program

In the USA, 41 million people out of 330 million are on food stamps.

 

[nahtanbob]

No one is denying that Modi was elected through a democratic process. That’s a fact. But democracy isn’t just about elections, it’s about institutions, accountability, and the rule of law. Pakistan, unfortunately, is trapped in a hybrid model where the ballot box is merely decorative, and real power flows through unelected corridors.

Calling Showbaz a puppet isn’t an insult, it’s a diagnosis. When prime ministers are installed, not elected; when policies are dictated by unelected generals; and when dissent is crushed through media blackouts and midnight raids, you don’t have democracy, you have managed optics.

The real tragedy isn’t that Trump doesn’t know Showbaz’s name. It’s that millions of Pakistanis don’t know who truly governs them. Until Pakistan dismantles this establishment stranglehold, no leader elected or imposed will have the legitimacy or autonomy to lead with vision.

If Pakistan wants to be taken seriously on the global stage, it must stop pretending and start reforming. Real democracy isn’t just about voting, it’s about who gets to decide after the votes are counted. And right now, that decision isn’t in the hands of the people.

I am fine with military generals running the show if they take accountability and responsibility. Of course, results are expected.

 

[Sam6536]

I don't believe Modi has earned India international respect. He simply happened to rise at a time when China was also rising, and the West needed India as cannon fodder to contain China. Everyone knows that Indians love flattery—if saying a few nice words can get India to sacrifice itself, that's a deal the West is more than happy to make.

YouTube is filled with videos showing the West’s real attitude toward India. Even Trump once lost control and let it slip.

The BJP is a right wing party and like most right right parties it has those characteristics.

My metric of judging BJP is differentiated. When it comes to ease of doing business, promoting MSMEs and make in India, the BJP govt has done well.

The Part Z proposal of UNCITRAL framework, SEZs, promoting arbitration, relaxing court measures for corporations. These are among some good legal decisions they took.

The growth of India is multifaceted, the Law Commission Panels and Reports are still going strong and the recommendations are adapted into legislation by the government quite regularly.

 

[Pakistanithinktank]

I am fine with military generals running the show if they take accountability and responsibility. Of course, results are expected.

I’ve got no issue with a hybrid system, if it delivers results for the public. But let’s be honest: it’s not working. That’s why I’ve proposed scrapping the bloated provincial setup and replacing it with streamlined economic zones at the divisional level, each led by a publicly elected governor with a lean, efficient cabinet.

The real power should sit where the people live, in districts and cities. We need to build a robust local government system, backed by full administrative authority and a reformed judicial framework that ensures access to justice at the grassroots. This isn’t just governance, it’s a blueprint for accountability, efficiency, and service driven leadership.

 

[Maarkhoor]

@RajaBaja

Pakistan has a very geostrategic location and for that reason it will be of great interest to both USA and PRC. In case, it has billions of barrels of oil and gas or trillions of dollars of rare earths it will get further interest.

Regards

Build toilets first than brag......


Only 2 % of Indian and even two percent only 4 or 5 billionaires holding all the wealth oif India rest you people are eating and living in a shit.,

 

[SoulSpokesman]

@Maarkhoor

Build toilets first than brag......

First learn to read, then post on PDF. I wasn't bragging here about IND.

Regards

 

[RajaBaja]

I’ve got no issue with a hybrid system, if it delivers results for the public. But let’s be honest: it’s not working. That’s why I’ve proposed scrapping the bloated provincial setup and replacing it with streamlined economic zones at the divisional level, each led by a publicly elected governor with a lean, efficient cabinet.

The real power should sit where the people live, in districts and cities. We need to build a robust local government system, backed by full administrative authority and a reformed judicial framework that ensures access to justice at the grassroots. This isn’t just governance, it’s a blueprint for accountability, efficiency, and service driven leadership.
Click to expand...

The provincial system is good as is. The "new" provinces topic is being started to take attention away from key issues. You can't have city based provinces with 10 million population each, that's a thought it will cripple the entire system. I know who is provoking this thought and why.

What needs to happen is, strict enforcement of China like policies. FM Munir said it right, we need to be a hard state in a sense that like China, country comes first. You then push this agenda down ever single organization, whether be Justice, Police or FBR. When everyone knows there is no forgiveness, they will be forced to work and deliver.

The thought that one or five individuals can be bigger than the country shows a mindset. Such mindsets only destroy a country. Everyone is equal in their position. Only then you can move forward.

If we have issues managing 5 provinces, let's say due to corruption or uneven policies, etc, imagine having this issue on 20 or 30 provinces. It will literally destroy the country. These same problems will grow so big that they will not be solved. 5 bureaucracies vs. 20 or 30 bureaucracies. Good luck in running the country.

10 million population doesn't create a province. Take a look at India, China, the US, each province or state has an area enough to be qualified for a state. Not mega cities making provinces. That will destroy any hope for a better Pakistan. What we need it enforcement of the current rules and law with strict enforcement and results will come.

 

[Pakistanithinktank]

The provincial system is good as is. The "new" provinces topic is being started to take attention away from key issues. You can't have city based provinces with 10 million population each, that's a thought it will cripple the entire system. I know who is provoking this thought and why.

What needs to happen is, strict enforcement of China like policies. FM Munir said it right, we need to be a hard state in a sense that like China, country comes first. You then push this agenda down ever single organization, whether be Justice, Police or FBR. When everyone knows there is no forgiveness, they will be forced to work and deliver.

The thought that one or five individuals can be bigger than the country shows a mindset. Such mindsets only destroy a country. Everyone is equal in their position. Only then you can move forward.

If we have issues managing 5 provinces, let's say due to corruption or uneven policies, etc, imagine having this issue on 20 or 30 provinces. It will literally destroy the country. These same problems will grow so big that they will not be solved. 5 bureaucracies vs. 20 or 30 bureaucracies. Good luck in running the country.

10 million population doesn't create a province. Take a look at India, China, the US, each province or state has an area enough to be qualified for a state. Not mega cities making provinces. That will destroy any hope for a better Pakistan. What we need it enforcement of the current rules and law with strict enforcement and results will come.

Wrong again. I’ve written extensively on this, including a pilot framework and I’ll say it plainly. Pakistan’s current governance model is broken. The obsession with the 18th Amendment and NFC Award has become a fiscal death spiral, dragging the country toward economic collapse.

Pakistan doesn’t need bloated provinces. My suggestion is to remove provinces all together. Pakistan needs economic zones with zonal administrations led by publicly accountable governors. Making economic zones 2nd tier of government. We don’t need corrupt MPAs chasing development funds for pet projects. What we need is a system where the federal government channels funds directly to economic zones.

If we build a strong local government structure with real checks and balances, we’ll see rapid, equitable development across Pakistan not just budget dumps into Lahore while the rest of the country is left behind.
Presidential system with 32 to 38 Economic Zones will work just fine. Decentralized of power to district and cities will improve administration and improve public trust.

 

[harpy1]

Yeah getting back to the title thread
USA thinking India v Pakistan
my take
USA will.always back stab the non white countries especially Islamic
They looked away when Israel bombed Qatar even cut off their radars
They try I repeat try to tell India to stop buying oil.for years from .Russia
They told you we will bomb you back to the stone age during terror attacks..we all saw that comment across the world
Yeah ...you keep USA guys

We will keep modi and stick two fingers up at white house
Watch them.come crawling back to new Delhi

 

[RajaBaja]

Wrong again. I’ve written extensively on this, including a pilot framework and I’ll say it plainly. Pakistan’s current governance model is broken. The obsession with the 18th Amendment and NFC Award has become a fiscal death spiral, dragging the country toward economic collapse.

Pakistan doesn’t need bloated provinces. My suggestion is to remove provinces all together. Pakistan needs economic zones with zonal administrations led by publicly accountable governors. Making economic zones 2nd tier of government. We don’t need corrupt MPAs chasing development funds for pet projects. What we need is a system where the federal government channels funds directly to economic zones.

If we build a strong local government structure with real checks and balances, we’ll see rapid, equitable development across Pakistan not just budget dumps into Lahore while the rest of the country is left behind.
Presidential system with 32 to 38 Economic Zones will work just fine. Decentralized of power to district and cities will improve administration and improve public trust.

"Wrong Again" is how you started your post ! One can only be wrong if proven in a scientific factual way. Two people discussing two theories can't be wrong. It's called "difference of opinion".

The world runs on a system. These systems have been in place since the Roman and Greek empires. The larger administration is always at a state level and tax collection and local governance allows each city or economic zone to grow. We already have "Chamber of Commerce" and these represent individual industrial zones. So the structure for proper governance is there.

The structure we have, is no different than the US, UK, China, India. As always, being Pakistanis, we try to boil the entire ocean that's impossible. What we need is, economic growth. Not bullsh8. One day it's more provinces, one day it's break down the country into streets and call them provinces, etc. These dumb ideas only exist to fool common Pakistani.

There is now an economic structure in place. We'll judge it's success by 2028. Like I've been saying for a year now in almost every post written on economy. 2028 we are supposed to re-balance our GDP and establish a concrete future growth. We need practical growth. Not these bullsh8 ideas that have no economic backing or success anywhere in the world. These are being thrown around to favor one or two individuals as always.

Open up a separate thread so we can debate there. This thread is derailed so no more additional issues here outside of the US-India-Pakistan relationship.