RescueRanger
Meme Lord
Is there a pdf version? I’d give it a read.Trying to give it another go:
Skimmed thru some Evola earlier, but this guy doesn't seem too extreme or anything.
He decided upon Sufi Islam in the end.
What book are you reading?
- Thread starter PakAl
- Start date
Sharma Ji
Elite Member
I got it on the relatively cheap on Amazon, 400 odd INR something ? for a hard copy..
search, mil jaani chahiye
I only got it to see what all the "fascist" thing was all about.. didn't find anything there.
Kai logon ne to drug experimenter Aldous Huxley ko bhi daal rakha hai, in this "fascism" pigeonhole of theirs.
it's all very weird.. does not compute, our world these days.
Nilgiri
INT'L MOD
You have watched the movie after all then? The Tamil one or the Hindi remake (Raj Tilak)?...or both?
They really tried with the hindi remake, did a good job on lyrics....but it just doesn't rhyme/alliterate/resonate so well or have same lyrical quality and sound heh.
A for effort. But this always happens in original --> remake conversions in general. Tamil remakes of other languages suffer same thing as well.
It is splitting hairs here between the two (V vs P) tbh....honestly, there is no wrong answer here....its just unending debate when you have apex vs apex.
The debate here within family is casual accepting one though for these two....it achieves nowhere near the hot fire it has and does when for example it comes to sivaji portrayal of Karna.....propaganda involved and all in that screenplay.... (and then a vast excessive plainly corrupted hagiography a significant portion of my extended family go for to rush to Karna's broader defence...like he is a perfect ubermensch).
All because (as my folks have told me)....mostly just because Sivaji (their utter favourite) portrayed him here.
My father has tried over span of decades to correct and humble their take on this with his vast actual knowledge of the story (especially given his scholarly knowledge of Sanskrit and theology).... i.e we just want to say its a movie in the end, not to take it as the actual story....and we should clearly call out what is wrong in it as wrong...both in this specific portrayal+screenplay and what the great imperfections were with Karna himself in the original story too....however tragic a context his was. But it is to little avail (there are other such divides caused by cinema and other cultural and political discourse, this just came to mind now as example)....even though "our side" is fully appreciative of Sivaji's acting both within Karna and more broadly and what it has meant to Tamil cinema and culture.
Tamils of any stripe can be ridiculously obstinate about their broader understanding from cinema fandom stuff "top down" prism in all kinds of ways....its nuts haha.
The obstinacy then transcends to other things....and it can become a real problem.
Anyway past the movies problematic issues for our side, Kannadasan lyrical synthesis with MSV-TKR composing and the best vocalists of the era....reaches near singular unique apex here in its own way in the movie Karnan. Ithu thaan tamizhisai!
Nilgiri
INT'L MOD
I wish l could share this conversation and video with my late mother. She was a encyclopedia for indian movies. Even at the age of 83 when her dementia allowed her she would remember things. When l would go on tour l had to get indian film magazines for her and if l forgot it was hell to pay. View attachment 38740View attachment 38741
With her magazinemiss you ammi
Bless her for doing such a good job with raising you and crafting you to what you are today.
May she rest in peace....a soundly cultured good lady that has done a good job. She would have been great to have a long talk with....I always enjoy interacting with cultured people that have seen so much that I never could have.
I see the clear resemblance again with you too...just like you with your dad earlier heh.
Nilgiri
INT'L MOD
The connection was that documentary about 1950s Egypt (I will have to try track it down maybe, it might have been a Nasser biopic thing)....where I saw Indian movie poster with this actress (Vyjayanthimala) when Egyptian general society setting/context was being looked at etc. I remember doubling back to make sure at the time....and chuckling lol.
No rush, take your time friend. This is just casual thread here for one own whim and fancy as and when it comes.
Fatman17
Moderator
Thanks for your kindness
Joe Shearer
Professional
Only the dance.
The weather has suddenly improved with recent thunder-storms, and once I get my balance back, and feel a little better, maybe I'll try the movie.
That reminds me.
I was brooding at this very rich mythological and 'historical' oeuvre that Tamil movies have - not thought too much about Telugu or Kannada, and only a couple of brushes with Mohanlal movies - and realised that we were really behind the ball. This is a 1937 movie, and it shows its age.
So here you go, Ali Baba, directed by Madhu Bose, and starring his lovely wife, Sadhana Bose, as Morgiana - in Bengali, Marjina. Also one of the earliest appearances of the comic, Robi Ghosh, unabashedly in blackface, who died only the other day after an almost unending career.
About 35 years later, there was a remake, zinged up, and happily without Robi Ghose in blackface, and no less than Utpal Dutt gracing the occasion, as The Statesman used to say.
If you do look at this version, and look at the YouTube presentation, besides dismissing Salil Chaudhuri, who did the music, try to spot the producer. In those days, Bhutan and Nepal lived in Calcutta and their lives rotated around Calcutta society.
I hope you get to see either or both these versions.
Last edited:
Nilgiri
INT'L MOD
Will definitely check these out, I have a nagging suspicion I have seen the older one in passing before....another Bong friend of mine from college days introduced to me some old movies from time to time.
It's funny you bring up Ali Baba.... my memories are fond of the "OG" Tamil movie of it with MGR (there is an even older Tamil one from early 1940s I haven't seen yet) ...but mostly not because of MGR (in the 1950s one)... but because of P. Bhanumathi.
You have little idea how long this song was stuck in my head for weeks after I first heard it when I watched movie (with my folks one weekend)...it still easily gets stuck in my head without much effort heh.
Azhagaana Ponnu Naan,
Adhukketha Kannu Thaan
(Pretty girl I am, with eyes to match!)
...you see it just cannot be rhymed/flowed outside of Tamil's agglutination haha.
This black and white version is actually better visually....
My dad had brought the VCD and said it was first tamil colour movie (to get me to sit down and watch it with him)....and I at first was kind of disappointed at how bad the colour technology used was.....but I couldnt complain much as the movie itself was really good.
But it was later my mom explained in longer form just how much P. Bhanumathi meant to her....a total unit for unadulterated "can do" feminism of that era. My mom's eyes lit up
describing her feats (ability to act AND sing, so very rare....and then choreography, dancing, direction, music coordination everything you can think of regarding movies....for a woman back then). A real "gettikari" my mom had no doubt read about over time in kalki, ananda vikatan etc as a girl and impressed her (and other girls and ladies) so very much... a real feminist inspiration.... that you can do and be anything as a woman. These things are so important for each culture in the end in 20th century if you think about it.
Nilgiri
INT'L MOD
@Afif this thread may be of interest you to get where I come from w.r.t CCP and PRC vis a vis China.
defencepk.com
You may find the larger thread an interesting one to get into from start to finish and comment what you would like to on it etc...
What book are you reading?
How would you rate Big Capital in an Unequal World: The Micropolitics of Wealth in Pakistan out of 10? For those who are interested in the topic, it is a good book, but mainly from a foreign perspective. For me, much of it was not exactly new. So a dual score? 9 for the former case, 3-4 for...
defencepk.com
You may find the larger thread an interesting one to get into from start to finish and comment what you would like to on it etc...
Nilgiri
INT'L MOD
Actually just earlier a friend of mine wanted a proper "starting reference" to debate a book, movie and then larger thematic subjects from it.
So he checked what google had to say regarding the meaning of the title (of the novel: Do androids dream of electric sheep) and got:
In the novel, electric animals symbolize humanity's need for status despite impossible circumstances. In a world abandoned by most of humanity due to radioactive dust, owning a living animal is a status symbol of the highest order. When one cannot afford such a luxury, one purchases a facsimile, or an electric animal.
He has now posited it as the "first principles" base....and will make his case (whenever free time arrives for it) from that inside out so that we get to better understanding on how our disagreements have formed for the more outer layers. A debate that should serve our collective friends in that discussion space well....we shall see though.
Somewhat similar to look into Aldous Huxley novel I did earlier with @_NOBODY_ earlier in this thread too.
Anyway this hopefully serves as a small bridge between two pinned threads I contributed in and hope to contribute more to....for interested and conversant folks that come across it to read and share their thoughts as they would like to in both.
What reminded me of the munir doctrine thread chat..... was that word "facsimile".... as I used "ersatz" in that earlier reply to you.
Nilgiri
INT'L MOD
Definitely, as it will provide another larger perspective to part of work I am engaged in....
i.e writing, testing and evaluating certain routines for coders to later follow w.r.t machine learning (the earlier "direct grafting" attempts here have been grinding/mashing some cogs so far as the AI does not have the larger picture and coherence/purpose imbued in it among other limitations).
i.e scaffolding for later (from my experience on some very large yet intricate processes of simulation) when my company gets around to funding + applying more HR here to take advantage of AI resources more. Things that may well be of interest to you to compare with this book (and for me too when I get around to this book later).
But before I can get to that very outer layer of things (to then think+explore about its intersection with the human domain in ways I can best convey in this thread), I feel the even larger scaffolding of that human domain must be gotten through to some degree first in here, and whatever queries and debates it engages first.
Hope audience of this thread finds it interesting whenever they come across it....i would like as much deep engagement+qualitative interaction as possible.
I grow weary of most of rest of this forum and its antics unfortunately. I will focus on few particular spots like this one to try compile and give and harness some value best I see fit.
Nilgiri
INT'L MOD
Where to start....oh where?
What is in my mind w.r.t this forum most recently and immediately right now I guess is good place as any.
Before i can get into the three S relations: schrodinger, souvenirs and semantics... (relevant layers in their context pertaining to all of this)...
There's phenomena often seen with a whole ideological war happening and the waves crash on the beach, flotsam and jetsam...
A beach with its size, time and distance from whatever caused the flotsam and jetsam far away or near...
It is up to the beach in the end to deal with the flotsam and jetsam....one mans trash is another mans treasure on that stuff... largely dependent on how close or how far you were and are to the war and your sense of all flotsam and jetsam you saw on your way to the beach...
I focus on those i can trust and i can value that see the bigger picture ....i.e "the 5%" qualitative-oriented or so anywhere....
I recede from the 95% disturbia noise that has gotten stale and worse to me....the ones that do too much conflation of good and bad.
If the 95% impacts on the 5%, that's when I prioritise intervention....it needs sound trust of my own judgement on the 5% and 95% I suppose in the end. i.e if flotsam and jetsam trash goes out of its way to be a real nuisance in what I see are the vital cogs and sanctuaries above the morass, it becomes my problem too
But its ultimately in the interest of the "distilled 5%" understanding ideological wars broadly and better....to then work through the layers they have with whom they then interact.
But there's just going to be huge gaps all during this process anywhere, a matter of degree in the end....so i work with what i have.
The larger beach upkeep in the end (w.r.t pristine spots vs morass) depends on all the vital cogs applying this...its something out of my control in the end....and it is what it is in the end.
Hence my interest in focusing on only quality here as far as possible and to try get the quantity to self-regulate itself as far as it can @Joe Shearer
There's a whole stargate episode that comes to mind where "Macgyver" (I always called Richard Dean Anderson that as there's a long running gag of an inside joke I have with a friend).... dithers and dithers with some leader on another planet that just doesn't get the nature of the war that has now arrived to his planet and society.
That "leader" that has the biggest lever to take action from the clear objective warnings Macgyver gives.....yet the leader trusts instead in certain metaphysical superstitions, for the purpose of being blind to reality.... given the refuge and operating norms and conventions and all else this has provided as long as it has....as though correlation is full causation.
No deference given to one that has seen the war as long as he has....and knows what is about to occur.
It was in end telling case of not dithering too long (much time squandered trying to convince one that just didn't grasp it, as well intended as he was too) and to taking action promptly where possible to preserve and solidify on higher ground first that which is good and can be (lest it be swept away by the incoming flood)....and work from that outwards. Otherwise waiting for the highest human lever can be too late simply put....its a coin flip binary not aligned with the resolution of society underneath.
This is how I deal with authority tiers in all social contract (big and small) with what authority I have to work with those that accept it.
Since its a book thread, and since i mentioned Hobbes and Locke already (Rousseau, Hume et al. are just extra bonuses for those keen on it):
In an archetypical way, this resembles the disputes i have with another friend regarding the post on "electric sheep" and what he sees as ersatz and genuine....and why the Philip K Dick novel (and the movie even more so IMO) is good as any to get into for us as we have started.
His is a more Hobbesian approach, mine is firmly Lockean....he doesn't seem to know either word though heh at least at this point.
But it is not surprising he prefers the book, and I the movie (Bladerunner).
This is why it will mimic to some degree what I got into with my counterpart @_NOBODY_ here as well regarding "brave new world".
More on this later, I will see if anyone has any thoughts to share in interim.
Joe Shearer
Professional
...and I thought I was the lone madman finding this to be a nightmare.
Nilgiri
INT'L MOD
heh I know what you mean but for me its par for course stuff....inevitability of discourse in most places these days and how places generally choose to orient to handle them as is without much filtering....so filtering has to be done on one's own end (with interest of what is good/worthy still). There are still lot of things going right if you know where to look and focus.
i.e my reading of my stress and strain, the young's modulus isn't what it once used to be...definitely not young anymore
...Plastic deformation is a canary in coal mine and is to be treated as such as there are things past it that it warns of.
So application and bearings will be appropriately selective for the tempered metal that is motivation...in interest of its long term elastic-only durability.
Everyone's mileage and outlook on this varies in the end I suppose.
I await any commentary you have, if any, on the social contract etc and any worthy sidetracks....before I proceed a bit more....the route to artificial intelligence (nobody is engaging a book on) lies first in exploring human intelligence.
These things are all squared away as they are in my mind....very little is really up for change by debate.....so it proceeds very fast in my mind what I think/apply compared to how I get to explaining them using words.
