sha, its Sanskrit sound and thus traditionally has a grantha letter...(ஷ ) ...though when closed/connector it has k start like ksh in draksha (grape), lakshmi etc
So I wouldn't transliterate it as shandai/shandigal, but just candai/candigal....or use s to replace the c since its soft c.
Wow, my in-laws use it with an 'sh' sound! But then my patiently long-suffering Iyer sister-in-law has these things about Dosai and Doshai, so the gaping hole between the 'Madras' Tamil and Hebbar Tamil is known.
Hemangini speaks Madras Tamil, Hebbar Tamil and Kannada equally comfortably, to be fair, in her mother's footsteps (although S adds a very pure Bengali to her repertory).
Poetic meter (syllable matching etc) and also the verses are directly (impolite/affectionate personal register, there's no time for politeness) almost commanding the listener to remember the utter obviousness of the truth it contains.
i.e when the sky and earth are yours (already)....and you know fighting with others is wrong (in this great expanse of opportunity)..... da (you!) best realise the virtue of these natural truths and that pain/sorrow are all man made (heavy materialism and purely materially guided decisions etc).
SPB was really setting things alight in the 1990s in all kind of ways with AR Rahman and other composers. It was really great era of music to follow onto the earlier era.
That WAS a kind of golden age, even from an outsider's point of view.
In 95, I had just chucked up my own little business and gone back to work, a hop, step and a jump, almost precisely, small mid-range specialist organisation, Sadhan Dutt's attempt at setting up an offshore software base in Bangalore and then a joint sector company of some interest.
Point is things were moving rather swiftly, with little or no time for music, or for anything else. Those were the days, with the offshore thingy, that ruined my sleeping pattern, thanks to which I still have almost US hours of sleep.
It was difficult to ignore A R Rahman, and it was also a time when there was nothing I could do for my own entertainment but go along with the others to watch Tamil films.
I think it must have been when I was around 12 years old when I heard the song ~98 on some SPB tape relative gave me after I really gained appreciation for his voice on few road trips we did around summer vacation in coimbatore-BLR-mysore, Kerala and also Kaveri area.
Wow, my in-laws use it with an 'sh' sound! But then my patiently long-suffering Iyer sister-in-law has these things about Dosai and Doshai, so the gaping hole between the 'Madras' Tamil and Hebbar Tamil is known.
Hemangini speaks Madras Tamil, Hebbar Tamil and Kannada equally comfortably, to be fair, in her mother's footsteps (although S adds a very pure Bengali to her repertory).
Yup I suspected its vernacular thing. Mine is more malayalam/western TN based...even in things as basic as numbers....in most of rest of TN, four is nanku and five is aindu (considered standard Tamil).....but in our regional vernacular the k has shifted to l (nalu - which is also standard malayalam) and we prefer saying anju/anchu similar to panch (again making use of the inj/ch)...again this is the standard malayalam too. Malayalis have preserved much more of the sanskrit phonology in general too (long subject).
The languages really are something of a smooth continuum in various ways. Tenants in Coimbatore at my grampa's place were Kannadigas and so there would be lot of code switching going on at times that I got used to (while playing with their kids etc)...but they knew fluent Tamil as well. That whole neighbourhood was fairly heavy Kannadiga presence as the corner temple was run by a Kannadiga family (my mom when she was young would have prasad lunch there from time to time and thats the old memories she has they would warn the food was "bisi bisi!!" rather than say soodu etc). Coimbatore has long been a unique melting pot of an area.
Yup I suspected its vernacular thing. Mine is more malayalam/western TN based...even in things as basic as numbers....in most of rest of TN, four is nanku and five is aindu (considered standard Tamil).....but in our regional vernacular the k has shifted to l (nalu - which is also standard malayalam) and we prefer saying anju/anchu similar to panch (again making use of the inj/ch)...again this is the standard malayalam too. Malayalis have preserved much more of the sanskrit phonology in general too (long subject).
The languages really are something of a smooth continuum in various ways. Tenants in Coimbatore at my grampa's place were Kannadigas and so there would be lot of code switching going on at times that I got used to (while playing with their kids etc)...but they knew fluent Tamil as well. That whole neighbourhood was fairly heavy Kannadiga presence as the corner temple was run by a Kannadiga family (my mom when she was young would have prasad lunch there from time to time and thats the old memories she has they would warn the food was "bisi bisi!!" rather than say soodu etc). Coimbatore has long been a unique melting pot of an area.
I was taught Nala and Anja. And of course, you know all about bisi bele baath - what the Delta calls bisi bele hooli anna! I don't know if Puliogre exists; up here, they call it Puli Hora.
Tamil to Kannada and back wasn't particularly difficult, but I had to remember which it was; from Romba nalla irakka to Thumba channa ide was a gear shift, tough for a poor Sassenach already smarting under the oppression of the West Bengalis pretending theirs was the only accent worth speaking.
Until I got married, my (surviving) uncle and mother used Tamil to talk to each other and keep the rest of the family guessing.Their having been so embedded in Madras and the Presidency in general - I've told the story about the Guild of Service building in Coimbatore elsewhere - led to amusing consequences in later life.
I was taught Nala and Anja. And of course, you know all about bisi bele baath - what the Delta calls bisi bele hooli anna! I don't know if Puliogre exists; up here, they call it Puli Hora.
Food alert, maybe @Fatman17 namesake and all finds some of this interesting (fatman are you appreciative of south indian food like dosa idli etc?). I see @_NOBODY_ certainly is following along our convo, as off track it might have gotten now (oh well, cant be helped sometimes, thats the nature of books in end).
Puliyodharai saadam/soru...
(EDIT: brahmins only really use saadam rather than soru for cooked rice, there are subtle and overt digs at brahmins all through following movie in a very genial way, i wont spoil it for you much)
....or puli-saadam for short.
But puliogare is very well known as MTR packet of the tamarind spice mix obviously used the kannadiga name. Puli hora in telugu, well its similar in end to the others, no problem seeing the same shared roots.
As ghatotkacha fondly sang of it too (among many other dishes spread out for a kaurava-coerced wedding he was going to take advantage of in short order to teach them an immediate and then longer term lesson).
Probably my favourite trichy loganathan song (an example of other A+ tier folks that deserve a mention, just didnt get quite the same popularity like with the rest).
context (and the original english "laughing policeman" that inspired it):
The song Kalyana Samayal Sadam/Vivaha Bhojanambu will always remain the high point of the film Maya Bazaar. Let us see where its tune came from...
sriramv.com
Listening to it again, the alliteration rhyming puttu, thattu and ishtam pola vettu....vettu used this way is again a colloquialism brahmins would avoid if possible (im going to cut/slaughter this meal!)
Though my dad loves to use this at times and apologise a bit after heh (is how I learned the faux pas to begin with).
Have you watched the movie yet? I remember suggesting it to you before....w.r.t conclusion ghatotkacha gives that would be befitting to BJP thugs today.... (both versions telugu and tamil are on YT if you cant acquire a hard copy - some are even colourised/brushed up a bit...I only really know the original black and white versions as reference in mind)
You will likely find the telugu version the easier to understand IMO...though having watched both (and both are excellent), there are certain nuances in the acting that are simply superior in the tamil version (some of the comedic scenes come to mind, like when we are first introduced to ghatotkacha and his tribe and minions, often making fun of the very same sanskrit phonology i mention earlier).
It is the Tamil version that also has the one sirkazhi song who's voice and tamil lyric IMO really adds an ethereal mysterious quality (referencing name sake of the movie) to where the plot is headed in grand scheme of things when the chips all seem to be down and protagonists all out of luck (its hard to put in words)...not taking anything away from telugu version which is also top notch here.
The three Raos (Ghantasala for the music and he sang the finale too iirc, Ranga Rao for his portrayal of ghatotkach, and NT Rama Rao for Krishna) were titans in their era....and this movie more than any other synchronizes them uniquely.
Movies like these (where its truly hard to say if the songs are better than the story and the acting or vice versa).... are why i generally rate many of the newer movies as just "ok" in general heh.
Also going to tag @Jungibaaz@RAMPAGE@SoulSpokesman at this point for them to read through the whole thread at their leisure and pace, and contribute from time to time if they can on what piques their fancy or interest.
Later I plan to bring more broader cultural/linguistic/historic connectors from what I was referencing a bit earlier.
I will have to delete all personal, ie, name references to members of my family, since I am pledged never to drag them into my nefarious activities on line.
Food alert, maybe @Fatman17 namesake and all finds some of this interesting (fatman are you appreciative of south indian food like dosa idli etc?). I see @_NOBODY_ certainly is following along our convo, as off track it might have gotten now (oh well, cant be helped sometimes, thats the nature of books in end).
Puliyodharai saadam/soru...
(EDIT: brahmins only really use saadam rather than soru for cooked rice, there are subtle and overt digs at brahmins all through following movie in a very genial way, i wont spoil it for you much)
....or puli-saadam for short.
But puliogare is very well known as MTR packet of the tamarind spice mix obviously used the kannadiga name. Puli hora in telugu, well its similar in end to the others, no problem seeing the same shared roots.
As ghatotkacha fondly sang of it too (among many other dishes spread out for a kaurava-coerced wedding he was going to take advantage of in short order to teach them an immediate and then longer term lesson).
Probably my favourite trichy loganathan song (an example of other A+ tier folks that deserve a mention, just didnt get quite the same popularity like with the rest).
context (and the original english "laughing policeman" that inspired it):
The song Kalyana Samayal Sadam/Vivaha Bhojanambu will always remain the high point of the film Maya Bazaar. Let us see where its tune came from...
sriramv.com
Listening to it again, the alliteration rhyming puttu, thattu and ishtam pola vettu....vettu used this way is again a colloquialism brahmins would avoid if possible (im going to cut/slaughter this meal!)
Though my dad loves to use this at times and apologise a bit after heh (is how I learned the faux pas to begin with).
Have you watched the movie yet? I remember suggesting it to you before....w.r.t conclusion ghatotkacha gives that would be befitting to BJP thugs today.... (both versions telugu and tamil are on YT if you cant acquire a hard copy - some are even colourised/brushed up a bit...I only really know the original black and white versions as reference in mind)
You will likely find the telugu version the easier to understand IMO...though having watched both (and both are excellent), there are certain nuances in the acting that are simply superior in the tamil version (some of the comedic scenes come to mind, like when we are first introduced to ghatotkacha and his tribe and minions, often making fun of the very same sanskrit phonology i mention earlier).
It is the Tamil version that also has the one sirkazhi song who's voice and tamil lyric IMO really adds an ethereal mysterious quality (referencing name sake of the movie) to where the plot is headed in grand scheme of things when the chips all seem to be down and protagonists all out of luck (its hard to put in words)...not taking anything away from telugu version which is also top notch here.
The three Raos (Ghantasala for the music and he sang the finale too iirc, Ranga Rao for his portrayal of ghatotkach, and NT Rama Rao for Krishna) were titans in their era....and this movie more than any other synchronizes them uniquely.
Movies like these (where its truly hard to say if the songs are better than the story and the acting or vice versa).... are why i generally rate many of the newer movies as just "ok" in general heh.
Also going to tag @Jungibaaz@RAMPAGE@SoulSpokesman at this point for them to read through the whole thread at their leisure and pace, and contribute from time to time if they can on what piques their fancy or interest.
Later I plan to bring more broader cultural/linguistic/historic connectors from what I was referencing a bit earlier.
I love food and when I was in India I was literally in food heaven.
Now contrary to popular belief l am not fat. My moniker @Fatman17 comes from the first 2 atomic bombs used over Japan. The first was Little Boy and the second Fatman.
Now l was always stockily built and my boss one day called me Fatman and l guess it has stuck with me. Mark 3 “Fat Man” Source
I love food and when I was in India I was literally in food heaven.
Now contrary to popular belief l am not fat. My moniker @Fatman17 comes from the first 2 atomic bombs used over Japan. The first was Little Boy and the second Fatman.
Now l was always stockily built and my boss one day called me Fatman and l guess it has stuck with me. View attachment 38079 Mark 3 “Fat Man” Source
Dosa and the thali (assorted dishes) were delicious. The thali craze has also started in Karachi. My Indian host was apologetic because there were no meat dishes. It didn't matter to me.
(EDIT: brahmins only really use saadam rather than soru for cooked rice, there are subtle and overt digs at brahmins all through following movie in a very genial way, i wont spoil it for you much)
Puliyodhrai saadam - of course! Just plain forgot about it.
Not to forget the tair saadam that was almost medicinal for some members of the company lunchroom, to my open-mouthed amazement in 1981.
My MIL used to make puliogre and bisi belebaath once a week, perhaps sometimes once a fortnight. Ai-ai-ai, what a treat it was. Now I make a synthetic, out-of-packet ready to eat version of puliogre, and even enjoy it, but frankly, that's a Maruti 800 to an MG.
Have you watched the movie yet? I remember suggesting it to you before....w.r.t conclusion ghatotkacha gives that would be befitting to BJP thugs today.... (both versions telugu and tamil are on YT if you cant acquire a hard copy - some are even colourised/brushed up a bit...I only really know the original black and white versions as reference in mind)
I have to make this effort, tracing the movie and watching it. Right here, I keep popping into a multi-cuisine restaurant named after the movie, and got to know about it from around 2014, when I first came to Hyderabad.
Have you watched the movie yet? I remember suggesting it to you before....w.r.t conclusion ghatotkacha gives that would be befitting to BJP thugs today.... (both versions telugu and tamil are on YT if you cant acquire a hard copy - some are even colourised/brushed up a bit...I only really know the original black and white versions as reference in mind)
You will likely find the telugu version the easier to understand IMO...though having watched both (and both are excellent), there are certain nuances in the acting that are simply superior in the tamil version (some of the comedic scenes come to mind, like when we are first introduced to ghatotkacha and his tribe and minions, often making fun of the very same sanskrit phonology i mention earlier).
It is the Tamil version that also has the one sirkazhi song who's voice and tamil lyric IMO really adds an ethereal mysterious quality (referencing name sake of the movie) to where the plot is headed in grand scheme of things when the chips all seem to be down and protagonists all out of luck (its hard to put in words)...not taking anything away from telugu version which is also top notch here.
Yup, it's just climbed high into the priority list, close to the air-cooler, the two clay pots for setting dahi, the bread baking tin, so it is to be hoped within this week.
Before this encounter, all over again, and not having read up about it, other than that it was a classic of the 50s, I always thought it was a film about Nala Chakravarthy.
Common theme among the mowgli and tarzan kind of stuff that has gone on....but contextually with other tribes of people.
Rome took inspiration from romulus and remus being brought up by a she-wolf too (in a way providing a clean break with the Greeks as Virgil might have also harnessed in his way).
My favourite movie along this kind of theme probably is Dances with wolves though. Give it a watch if you haven't seen it.
@_NOBODY_ actually I still have to read the novel the movie (Dances with Wolves) is based upon to then compare and contrast etc.
Sometimes the epic movies just manage to have a "je ne sais quoi" quality about them (screen play, casting, choreography music etc etc all coming together) so much so that when I read the books later, they fall kind of utterly short of the experience (esp first time coming in new) of the movie.
The stephen king short stories that I deliberately sought out after watching the movies (shawshank redemption, green mile) are classic examples to me of this.
I hope dances with wolves novel rises somewhat to the bar set by the movie when I do get to it later.
Was wondering why the shocked expression you left btw? If it was the Rome stuff, you will have to read the Aeneid (if you like that sort of thing)...its interesting subject to compare and contrast it with the Illiad.....why the Romans had an agenda to portray the Trojans as the good side and as their progenitors so on.
sriramv.com
