What book are you reading?

[Nilgiri]

yes the ச drops from standard cha to just ca (like an s sound)...one just "knows" when it happens in Tamil (and many other languages, especially agglutinative ones with their own character/phonology set matching/overlap histories).

Points if anyone knows the other language/poet I am referring to here thats famous case of it (if you are in the know anyway).

 

[Fatman17]

In his poem “the Rime of the Ancient Mariner”, the classic English poet Samuel Taylor Coleridge gave the message that has become a metaphor for killing the innocent and what follows once the sin is done. It became known as “killing the Albatross”. It is alluring that these metaphors of classic literature remain relevant even to this day. And the events of the modern world remind us of the lessons of the past and how similar nature of events will lead to similar nature of results. Whenever the balance of virtue and sin is disturbed there are consequences. The existence of the universe yearns for equilibrium and the signs are everclear, ever present.

The killing of the albatross by Coleridge can be metaphorically. In the poem, a ship is sailing through a sea, the captain of the ship is a cruel man with no regard for beauty, honesty or tolerance. At some point, the winds slow down and so does the ship upon which the captain is frustrated. One day, he observes that there is an Albatross sitting on the ledge of the ship. The captain decides to take out his cruelty and anger on the innocent bird and shoots the bird. The Albatross is a large bird that is found mostly at sea and is commonly visible on shorelines and travels long distances over waters. In English literature, the Albatross is symbol of nature, honesty and good luck. When the captain kills the Albatross, the crew of the ship are scared and speak among themselves that the killing of the Albatross is a bad omen. The captain dismisses it as mere superstition, however the crew is sure that the killing of the innocent bird will not bode well for the ship. Soon, the apprehensions of the crew turn out to be true. The ship is surrounded by thick fog and mist and the whole ship is lost in darkness with no clue as to where it is and the crew members begin to die on by one. The crew grows angry at the sailor who shot the Albatross and forces the captain to wear the dead Albatross around his neck as punishment. But even that remedy is unable to change the fate of the ship and finally a ghostly ship attacks the crew and the ship killing everyone onboard, only the captain is spared. Even the sea is not ready to keep the captain and he is thrown out to the shore. The captain then becomes a narrator of the whole saga, warning all others in the land to never kill an Albatross lest they be met with such a horrific end.

 

[Sharma Ji]

Trying to give it another go:

Skimmed thru some Evola earlier, but this guy doesn't seem too extreme or anything.

He decided upon Sufi Islam in the end.

 

[Joe Shearer]

After the rocking good humour of Maya Bazaar, needed something to cut the cloying good humour and robust antics, and went straight back to Manichithrathazhu.

 

[Nilgiri]

After the rocking good humour of Maya Bazaar, needed something to cut the cloying good humour and robust antics, and went straight back to Manichithrathazhu.

With Maya Bazaar, hope you see why my immediate family rates Savitri as best actress of all time heh. She has been excellent in so many other movies....her acting is so memorable.

As for manichithrathazhu, Shobana is also very good actress and even better dancer. Very top notch stuff South India can produce in all its cohorts hehe....but you already long have known this.

 

[Nilgiri]

View attachment 38239
In his poem “the Rime of the Ancient Mariner”, the classic English poet Samuel Taylor Coleridge gave the message that has become a metaphor for killing the innocent and what follows once the sin is done. It became known as “killing the Albatross”. It is alluring that these metaphors of classic literature remain relevant even to this day. And the events of the modern world remind us of the lessons of the past and how similar nature of events will lead to similar nature of results. Whenever the balance of virtue and sin is disturbed there are consequences. The existence of the universe yearns for equilibrium and the signs are everclear, ever present.

The killing of the albatross by Coleridge can be metaphorically. In the poem, a ship is sailing through a sea, the captain of the ship is a cruel man with no regard for beauty, honesty or tolerance. At some point, the winds slow down and so does the ship upon which the captain is frustrated. One day, he observes that there is an Albatross sitting on the ledge of the ship. The captain decides to take out his cruelty and anger on the innocent bird and shoots the bird. The Albatross is a large bird that is found mostly at sea and is commonly visible on shorelines and travels long distances over waters. In English literature, the Albatross is symbol of nature, honesty and good luck. When the captain kills the Albatross, the crew of the ship are scared and speak among themselves that the killing of the Albatross is a bad omen. The captain dismisses it as mere superstition, however the crew is sure that the killing of the innocent bird will not bode well for the ship. Soon, the apprehensions of the crew turn out to be true. The ship is surrounded by thick fog and mist and the whole ship is lost in darkness with no clue as to where it is and the crew members begin to die on by one. The crew grows angry at the sailor who shot the Albatross and forces the captain to wear the dead Albatross around his neck as punishment. But even that remedy is unable to change the fate of the ship and finally a ghostly ship attacks the crew and the ship killing everyone onboard, only the captain is spared. Even the sea is not ready to keep the captain and he is thrown out to the shore. The captain then becomes a narrator of the whole saga, warning all others in the land to never kill an Albatross lest they be met with such a horrific end.

It first came to my attention in the iron maiden song about the albatross ( a buddy played that whole album and then some during a road trip we did)

After that the 2nd time was in the movie serenity (im a big fan of the 1 season of firefly TV series as short and sweet as it was)

The baddy refers to one character as an albatross (she only brings bad luck)

The good guy corrects him....that the albatross brings good luck and it was some idiot that killed it (that brought bad luck).

It was a sign for me that i had better read the original poem afterwards lol.

The other bird referenced earlier somewhere by me in this thread was the mockingbird....
that its a sin to kill a mockingbird....all they ever do is make music for us to hear

Its said it alludes to loss of innocence in that story but I think its far deeper than that...

 

[Joe Shearer]

With Maya Bazaar, hope you see why my immediate family rates Savitri as best actress of all time heh. She has been excellent in so many other movies....her acting is so memorable.

As for manichithrathazhu, Shobana is also very good actress and even better dancer. Very top notch stuff South India can produce in all its cohorts hehe....but you already long have known this.

I haven't, actually, stuck to Kamalahaasan (not difficult, he's such a polymath), S and H used to drag me to movies of the new bunch, which I thought tailored to the auto rickshaw crowd.

Finding out much later about Shivaji Ganeshan, Gemini Ganeshan, MGR was a shock of major proportions. And I thought, encouraged by S, who was a crazy fan of Charulata, that Bengali movies were the Yin to the Bollywood Yang!

 

[Joe Shearer]

With Maya Bazaar, hope you see why my immediate family rates Savitri as best actress of all time heh. She has been excellent in so many other movies....her acting is so memorable.

She's outstanding, no doubt about it, but you need to watch Bengali movies too. Not just Ray and Ghatak, but some of the production line people too, meaning the people who kept the huge cinema crowd in Calcutta with stuff to watch, every week.

 

[Joe Shearer]

As for manichithrathazhu, Shobana is also very good actress and even better dancer. Very top notch stuff South India can produce in all its cohorts hehe....but you already long have known this.

Her dancing was stunning. That last scary as hell one was a master class: first, as the dippy Ganga, then the incredible Nagavalli. I didn't know, Kalakshetra notwithstanding, that it was possible to dance like that, and, living in Kotturpuram, we watched a lot of Kalakshetra .

 

[Nilgiri]

She's outstanding, no doubt about it, but you need to watch Bengali movies too. Not just Ray and Ghatak, but some of the production line people too, meaning the people who kept the huge cinema crowd in Calcutta with stuff to watch, every week.

Of course, I increase my repertoire as life progresses, all our starting circumstances are different but converge at some rate with time....i.e with help from both Bengali and North Indian friends (for suggestions and experiences past just the biggest well known ones)....and also global friends past that.

I still fondly remember working my way down the imdb "top 100" 20+ years ago slowly to build repertoire of western movies I had missed at that point. Very extremely useful to have done it back then compared to now.

Her dancing was stunning. That last scary as hell one was a master class: first, as the dippy Ganga, then the incredible Nagavalli. I didn't know, Kalakshetra notwithstanding, that it was possible to dance like that, and, living in Kotturpuram, we watched a lot of Kalakshetra .

yeah, well its not surprising given her Aunt (Padmini, 1 of 3 of the "travancore sisters).

If you haven't already, you ought to watch "Vanji Kottai Valiban" at some point.

It was really a movie that was added around the central excuse to have a dance-off between Padmini and esteemed rival Vyjayanthimala (and perfectly poised in the story too as love triangle involving the protagonist portrayed by Gemini Ganesan).

It established the parlance "sabash, sariyaana potti!" , that is now massive broader cultural reference of its own now.

I'm not even going to try translate the lyrics, they are too excellent to try....how these two put down the other one with all kind of digs....before they get to the competition itself finally (and Gemini at end intervening to not letting there be a winner).

Immediate family (incl me) is 100-0 in favour of Padmini being superior here and overall broadly. In extended family its maybe 80-20 in favour.....and leans to 50/50 in larger Tamil society from my impression I've gathered so far.

I still remember exact time, place and with whom I first watched the movie with (relatives, cousins et al sitting with me late into the night as it came on TV in a Bangalore visit)....I was absolutely enthralled haha. Now watching it is so convenient in comparison....but the context of the "rarity/difficulty" is diminished at same time....oh well a catch 22.

There was of course a professional rivalry between the two vocalists as well (Leela and Jikki, though both are equally good to me)....this was 50s era before Suseela (in her incredible unmatched splendour) came to utterly dominate this in the 60s movie playback field.

I still remember the very first time I saw Padmini song and dance (with my mother giving me the first bit of relevant intro context), it was this very one following here, I was maybe 8 years old and it was a VHS tape of "best tamil movie songs" a family friend had given us in HK (order of songs still firmly imprinted in my head).... its hard to describe the nostalgia I get seeing this:

TMS was just starting to hit his stride here (he would go on to utterly dominate the 1960s with Suseela his counterpart)....and his voice is noticeably different when singing for MGR (compared to his reference voice i have most impressed in my mind w.r.t a number of shivaji ganesan movies, TMS and Shivaji would become pretty much synonymous with each other for a long while).

MLV voice sublime as always here. It was just a different era back then!

==================================

Actually I referenced Vyjanthimala already in this forum earlier here when discussing Egypt with my friend @GoMig-21 :

Anyway I have to more measuredly go through your reply above again a bit later. I really "get" Egypt's dilemma and situation....these have been some long chats with my buds over the years.

But you know, the people will come through, they love good cultural stuff lol....and very cognisant of their long history. If people have this taste, affinity and recognition of long roots and why and what that all is, they are a rock in the end....and will see things through, they will just get natural weathered over time, thats all.

In old documentary about Egypt in 20th century (or maybe it was a large Nasser bio I watched, I forgot)....all kind of interesting details stood out to me past the narration. In one part I distinctly remember a yesteryear bollywood poster for a movie being broadcast lol, this was in 1950s egypt I think ( around time of suez crisis)....I recognised the actress even, she (Vyjanthimala) is from my neck of the woods in the south of India lol. So little things like that always confirmed to me Egyptian people will get along with all other folks and solve all their problems over time, if you give them a chance and bring opportunity to them....hear them out and they will hear you out.... and they give you repsect if you give them respect etc.

Even in Rome TV series, I remember one legionnary starting to mock and insult Egypt, and his buddy looks at him and chides him with "Egypt was great long before Rome ever existed"....or something like that. The nature of those words always stuck in my head lol.

That to me is Egypt heh. So a civilisation this long means you will persevere and see through all the problems you have. No worries bro.....but of course real solutions and work needs to be put in by those in positions to do so.

Actually it would be interesting for @GoMig-21 to look over this entire thread over time from start to finish and add any of his 2 cents to it he would like to..... he is one of the few "long form" post contributors I have noticed that is active overall that likes to get into the weeds of lot of discussions around the place.

I think a book/larger culture/debate thread like this one is just the ticket if he finds it interesting heh.

I should probably tag @Krptonite at this point to do the same.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Immediate family (incl me) is 100-0 in favour of Padmini being superior here and overall broadly. In extended family its maybe 80-20 in favour.....and leans to 50/50 in larger Tamil society from my impression I've gathered so far.

Uhh... You will forgive me for chickening out and voting for V. Don't have much choice in the matter.
What a dance off, though.

 

[Fatman17]

Of course, I increase my repertoire as life progresses, all our starting circumstances are different but converge at some rate with time....i.e with help from both Bengali and North Indian friends (for suggestions and experiences past just the biggest well known ones)....and also global friends past that.

I still fondly remember working my way down the imdb "top 100" 20+ years ago slowly to build repertoire of western movies I had missed at that point. Very extremely useful to have done it back then compared to now.



yeah, well its not surprising given her Aunt (Padmini, 1 of 3 of the "travancore sisters).

If you haven't already, you ought to watch "Vanji Kottai Valiban" at some point.

It was really a movie that was added around the central excuse to have a dance-off between Padmini and esteemed rival Vyjayanthimala (and perfectly poised in the story too as love triangle involving the protagonist portrayed by Gemini Ganesan).

It established the parlance "sabash, sariyaana potti!" , that is now massive broader cultural reference of its own now.

I'm not even going to try translate the lyrics, they are too excellent to try....how these two put down the other one with all kind of digs....before they get to the competition itself finally (and Gemini at end intervening to not letting there be a winner).

Immediate family (incl me) is 100-0 in favour of Padmini being superior here and overall broadly. In extended family its maybe 80-20 in favour.....and leans to 50/50 in larger Tamil society from my impression I've gathered so far.

I still remember exact time, place and with whom I first watched the movie with (relatives, cousins et al sitting with me late into the night as it came on TV in a Bangalore visit)....I was absolutely enthralled haha. Now watching it is so convenient in comparison....but the context of the "rarity/difficulty" is diminished at same time....oh well a catch 22.

There was of course a professional rivalry between the two vocalists as well (Leela and Jikki, though both are equally good to me)....this was 50s era before Suseela (in her incredible unmatched splendour) came to utterly dominate this in the 60s movie playback field.

I still remember the very first time I saw Padmini song and dance (with my mother giving me the first bit of relevant intro context), it was this very one following here, I was maybe 8 years old and it was a VHS tape of "best tamil movie songs" a family friend had given us in HK (order of songs still firmly imprinted in my head).... its hard to describe the nostalgia I get seeing this:

TMS was just starting to hit his stride here (he would go on to utterly dominate the 1960s with Suseela his counterpart)....and his voice is noticeably different when singing for MGR (compared to his reference voice i have most impressed in my mind w.r.t a number of shivaji ganesan movies, TMS and Shivaji would become pretty much synonymous with each other for a long while).

MLV voice sublime as always here. It was just a different era back then!

==================================

Actually I referenced Vyjanthimala already in this forum earlier here when discussing Egypt with my friend @GoMig-21 :



Actually it would be interesting for @GoMig-21 to look over this entire thread over time from start to finish and add any of his 2 cents to it he would like to..... he is one of the few "long form" post contributors I have noticed that is active overall that likes to get into the weeds of lot of discussions around the place.

I think a book/larger culture/debate thread like this one is just the ticket if he finds it interesting heh.

I should probably tag @Krptonite at this point to do the same.

I wish l could share this conversation and video with my late mother. She was a encyclopedia for indian movies. Even at the age of 83 when her dementia allowed her she would remember things. When l would go on tour l had to get indian film magazines for her and if l forgot it was hell to pay.
With her magazine miss you ammi

 

[_NOBODY_]

I wish l could share this conversation and video with my late mother. She was a encyclopedia for indian movies. Even at the age of 83 when her dementia allowed her she would remember things. When l would go on tour l had to get indian film magazines for her and if l forgot it was hell to pay. View attachment 38740View attachment 38741
With her magazine miss you ammi

May Allah grant her the highest place in Jannah.

 

[Fatman17]

May Allah grant her the highest place in Jannah.

Ameen

 

[GoMig-21]

Actually it would be interesting for @GoMig-21 to look over this entire thread over time from start to finish and add any of his 2 cents to it he would like to..... he is one of the few "long form" post contributors I have noticed that is active overall that likes to get into the weeds of lot of discussions around the place.

Yeah, I'm nosy like that LOL! I will, ma bro when I get a chance isA. After all the craziness these current times which are constantly demanding our undivided attention and things subside a bit, if they ever do. Thanks chief.

Nilgiri:

Actually I referenced Vyjanthimala already in this forum earlier here when discussing Egypt with my friend @GoMig-21 :

Forgive me, bro, the old memory is getting the **** kicked out of it with every passing day into old age, but pls remind me of this connection.