Why were Arab armed forces so ineffective?

[Awan68]

Sir afghans conquered whole india and had the most disciplined armies

Yet I will say modern afghans were never trained and don't have trained army

Same is true for modern Arabs since they revolted against the Ottomans

Why do you take objective observations so personally????

Afghans never conquered India, it is a misconception. It was actually Central Asians that conquered India, Afghanistan was itself conquered by Central Asian Turkic-Mongol hordes.

 

[313Ghazi]

Soo, spelling and grammar wars now ?

nice.

The article was behind a paywall.

We had to discuss something.

 

[Waz]

And who finished the mongols..your ignorance?

The Kipchak Turks (Mamluks) did bro....The Arab dynasties were destroyed by Hulagu khan.

Here is a respected historical source stating the same;

They were largely turks of various stripe. The majority at any given time would be Turks of various tribes (ethnicity the way we understand it would be hard to pin down, ethnogenisis was very much prominent in steppe tribes)

The grand strategy of the byzantine empire, Edward Luttwak.

 

[Persian Gulf]

Because it adds to the credibility of the author and subject. Believe it or not, education is actually a valuable thing.

Using British English variations vs American English variations is not an indicator of lack of education. Are you ok?

 

[Waz]

The article frames Arab military defeats as some sort of incompetence in the culture or way of doing things.
Arab armies were superb for at least 160 years after the Prophet(saws), and thereafter still remained a potent force which consolidated Spain and grew the Abbasid empire after.
Modern times have been different and poor leadership and lack of battle hardness are big flaws. But remember the Egyptians bucked this trend during the 73 war.

 

[Waz]

I'm not sure if soldiery holds the glamour and respect it once did in many Arab countries.

 

[Persian Gulf]

@Fatman17 please don't post links to articles behind a paywall without also posting the article itself, otherwise we have nothing to discuss!

thankfully, someone else posted the article.

Arab armed forces are ineffective because they are subservient to - and reliant upon - their providers in the US. They are also typically led by autocratic leaders who tend to have outsized influence on tactics etc (for example, Saddam's Army performed quite well against Iran in the 80s until Saddam got overly involved and started to lead operations himself).

The only comparator for Arabs in the region are Israel, Turkey and Iran. Israel is a tiny military base for the US with the US guaranteeing its qualitative superiority in the region. In 1973 the Arab coalition performed acceptably against Israel, but the threat of Israeli nukes triggered massive US support for Israel that shifted the momentum towards Israel. Turkey and Iran are much larger countries that are successors to empires that historically controlled West Asia for thousands of years, so it is natural that the many smaller Arab countries (many artificially divided/created) will be less powerful in comparison.

Smaller Arab groups have performed well in war: UAE special forces against Ansarallah in Yemen, Yemeni Ansarallah against the Saudi-led coalition in Yemen, and Hezbollah against Israel in 2006.

 

[ziaulislam]

Afghans never conquered India, it is a misconception. It was actually Central Asians that conquered India, Afghanistan was itself conquered by Central Asian Turkic-Mongol hordes.

Okay never knew that sheir shah suri and Ahmad abdali were central Asians
Just like how Turks were arabs per our posters

I mean what's happening to this world

 

[muhammed45]

What happened west all of a sudden criticized Arab armies I wonder?

There must be something right with Arabs lol

Possibly after UAE kicking Americans out of their soil and their coop with Russians.

 

[The SC]

The Kipchak Turks (Mamluks) did bro....The Arab dynasties were destroyed out by Hulagu khan.

Here is a respected historical source stating the same;

They were largely turks of various stripe. The majority at any given time would be Turks of various tribes (ethnicity the way we understand it would be hard to pin down, ethnogenisis was very much prominent in steppe tribes)

The grand strategy of the byzantine empire, Edward Luttwak.

Yes the battle of 'Ain Jalut.. it was the Mamluks.. who were raised and trained as Arabs in Egypt..

 

[The SC]

@Fatman17 please don't post links to articles behind a paywall without also posting the article itself, otherwise we have nothing to discuss!

thankfully, someone else posted the article.

Arab armed forces are ineffective because they are subservient to - and reliant upon - their providers in the US. They are also typically led by autocratic leaders who tend to have outsized influence on tactics etc (for example, Saddam's Army performed quite well against Iran in the 80s until Saddam got overly involved and started to lead operations himself).

The only comparator for Arabs in the region are Israel, Turkey and Iran. Israel is a tiny military base for the US with the US guaranteeing its qualitative superiority in the region. In 1973 the Arab coalition performed acceptably against Israel, but the threat of Israeli nukes triggered massive US support for Israel that shifted the momentum towards Israel. Turkey and Iran are much larger countries that are successors to empires that historically controlled West Asia for thousands of years, so it is natural that the many smaller Arab countries (many artificially divided/created) will be less powerful in comparison.

Smaller Arab groups have performed well in war: UAE special forces against Ansarallah in Yemen, Yemeni Ansarallah against the Saudi-led coalition in Yemen, and Hezbollah against Israel in 2006.

Hmmm..I wonder who got Islam to Turkey and Persia..

 

[Persian Gulf]

Hmmm..I wonder who got Islam to Turkey and Persia..

I think the OP is asking about events in the last 1000 years buddy

 

[Persian Gulf]

1000-1500 years ago Arab states didn't exist, so what's the point of going back that far to try to argue Arabs are actually great warriors ? that's not the topic. the topic is why Arab armed forces TODAY, and in RECENT HISTORY, have not been effective.

 

[ziaulislam]

The article frames Arab military defeats as some sort of incompetence in the culture or way of doing things.
Arab armies were superb for at least 160 years after the Prophet(saws), and thereafter still remained a potent force which consolidated Spain and grew the Abbasid empire after.
Modern times have been different and poor leadership and lack of battle hardness are big flaws. But remember the Egyptians bucked this trend during the 73 war.

This where both of us disagree
Eastern and Western block both claim victory but fact is eygptians never gained any significant territory lost more soldiers and equipment and went back on all of its commitments on negotiation table as per Arab League, OIC and PLF them selves "stabbed us in the back" giving up Palestine and golan heights for ever for Sinai which was never Israel actual objective anyway

If this is busting the trend then God help us

 

[ziaulislam]

@Fatman17 please don't post links to articles behind a paywall without also posting the article itself, otherwise we have nothing to discuss!

thankfully, someone else posted the article.

Arab armed forces are ineffective because they are subservient to - and reliant upon - their providers in the US. They are also typically led by autocratic leaders who tend to have outsized influence on tactics etc (for example, Saddam's Army performed quite well against Iran in the 80s until Saddam got overly involved and started to lead operations himself).

The only comparator for Arabs in the region are Israel, Turkey and Iran. Israel is a tiny military base for the US with the US guaranteeing its qualitative superiority in the region. In 1973 the Arab coalition performed acceptably against Israel, but the threat of Israeli nukes triggered massive US support for Israel that shifted the momentum towards Israel. Turkey and Iran are much larger countries that are successors to empires that historically controlled West Asia for thousands of years, so it is natural that the many smaller Arab countries (many artificially divided/created) will be less powerful in comparison.

Smaller Arab groups have performed well in war: UAE special forces against Ansarallah in Yemen, Yemeni Ansarallah against the Saudi-led coalition in Yemen, and Hezbollah against Israel in 2006.

Arabs against Arabs don't count..I would like to see them perform against a professional army..which probably the only one in the region is turkey and Israel