PA MLRS, Self Propelled and towed artillery [BM-11, Fatah-I GMLRS, Fatah-II] - News, Updates & Discussions

[mythbuster]

The JF17 can carry it. It will need some modification and probably take off with a reduced fuel load and top off from tankers.
(Yes, whether it can land safely is a good question).

If it can carry the load after modification then other issues are just theoretical....JF 17 doesn't need to fly too far away to launch the missiles , tankers won't be needed and question of landing safely is just a futile exercise in technical punditry.

 

[RAJPUT]

My own analysis based on what users that are on "inside" Have said we are adding roughly a regiment of Fatah 1 per year, each regiment has 18 TELs with 8 missiles each, which gives us a figure of 144 missiles or 12 per month

Of course somebody like @Panzerkiel or @farooqbhai can correct me If I am wrong.

Of course, nobody knows the actual number except for the people responsible for them directly. @Panzerkiel is a senior member with the relevant info, but I doubt he will ever reveal the actual numbers which guaranteed are multiple times higher than what you have stated.
Also, the capacity is not the limiting factor. The requirement is whats keeping the production rate low. We just don’t need that many lying around to waste money on maintenance.
Of course, senior members who have actual info can correct me, but no need if sensitive. Keep em guessing!

Also, @Panzerkiel sir g May 10 is approaching fast, hopefully you have the blog post ready for us to ponder on .

 

[rafale]

It is a Mach 2+ system capable of 5-10m attitudes at terminal attack but in general will do around 5-10k for cruise or a Hi-Hi-lo or Hi-Lo-lo at reduced range and speed because at those speeds it has to undergo a lot of dynamic pressure to change altitudes.

Also why it is a heavy system with the air launched at 2 tons(removing JF-17 entirely out of the mix as a launch platform) and ground launched versions are even heavier.
Lets do a comparison to Brahmos at risk of Bhaktora fanboys flooding the thread.


So it is less sophisticated but that does not mean Brahmos is automatically unreliable because that system is based off a long lineage in the proven Oniks versus the HD-1 is still not "battle tested" so to speak from a repeated launch aspect.

There are also differrences in propulsion - Brahmos is liquid fuel for which India had to set up a facility to produce and also storage that suits those requirements. This gives it a longer range due to efficiency from liquid fuel and better control but then you are also getting a complex missile with more pipes, valves and so on.

The HD-1 is solid fuel so you get less range from a similar mass but then it is easier(and cheaper) to produce along with much simpler storage systems which still getting 70-80% of the efficiency and control that Brahmos has.

However, that also means that likely from a cost perspective it provides Pakistan an immediate "simile" the missing capability it had in that specific vector and cheaper to procure considering the impact of cost has ten times more impact to Pakistan than India.

No side is "wrong" in their choice - India has its operational needs which go beyond land to multi domain common architecture which rewards them at their scale.
Pakistan gets a faster scaling system without deep infrastructure investment but has more limits to the system's overall performance.

Wouldn't air launched version issue be resolved by procuring more j-10CEs? I believe that is why PAF will go for more J-10s to act as strike platforms and also BVR PL15 carriers

 

[Sparten]

My own analysis based on what users that are on "inside" Have said we are adding roughly a regiment of Fatah 1 per year, each regiment has 18 TELs with 8 missiles each, which gives us a figure of 144 missiles or 12 per month

Of course somebody like @Panzerkiel or @farooqbhai can correct me If I am wrong.

You are presuming 144 missiles is all a regiment has; in reality, there has to be some magazine depth at both the regimental and depot level, beyond the frontline. A good rule of thumb is that the number of launcher/launch tubes to missiles is 1/5.

 

[Samurai]

You are presuming 144 missiles is all a regiment has; in reality, there has to be some magazine depth at both the regimental and depot level, beyond the frontline. A good rule of thumb is that the number of launcher/launch tubes to missiles is 1/5.

How many total regiments will the ARFC be comprised of?

 

[Dalit]

Sure , India imports chadis and three inch condoms and labels them Indian.

India actually imports Pakistani pink salt and rebrands it as Indian product.

 

[Sparten]

How many total regiments will the ARFC be comprised of?

No idea frankly.

 

[Toxic]

You are presuming 144 missiles is all a regiment has; in reality, there has to be some magazine depth at both the regimental and depot level, beyond the frontline. A good rule of thumb is that the number of launcher/launch tubes to missiles is 1/5.

In reality? Says who? In May we saw maybe 2.5-3 TELs worth of F1s being launched, 20-25 missiles, if they had like 1500 missiles in spare you would have seen a lot more full salvos.

 

[Ak01]

You are presuming 144 missiles is all a regiment has; in reality, there has to be some magazine depth at both the regimental and depot level, beyond the frontline. A good rule of thumb is that the number of launcher/launch tubes to missiles is 1/5.

rules of thumb can often be devoid of reality.

fatah is a relatively new system. You're giving them far too much credit

 

[Waz]

Well thank you to the military. I have been asking for the last 10 years for such a missile and now here it is;



Now these will be slamming hard into the Sanghi heartlands.

 

[Dalit]

Well thank you to the military. I have been asking for the last 10 years for such a missile and now here it is;

View attachment 196629

Now these will be slamming hard into the Sanghi heartlands.

The p@jeets and their media have gone bezerk. I have been watching some hilarious cope by the monkeys.

 

[Waz]

The p@jeets and their media have gone bezerk. I have been watching some hilarious cope by the monkeys.

Loads of Pani puri $hit flying everywhere with them bro. They are in full masala meltdown. They know full well what it means.

 

[ThoroughPro]

India actually imports Pakistani pink salt and rebrands it as Indian product.

I believe not anymore, it was banned during IK's time. I used to see made in india pink salt at Costco , now i see made in Pakistan pink salt at costco in the same Kirkland packaging.

 

[Ali_Baba]

The p@jeets and their media have gone bezerk. I have been watching some hilarious cope by the monkeys.

Over Fatah 3 ? Really? Why? Tv channels or forums?

 

[Oscar]

The air launched version of the missile weighs 1200KG or 1.2 tonnes which means it can be carried by the JF-17 on either the center or inner pylons.

the OEM showcased a model of JF-17 and Mirage 3/5 carrying 2 of these, now you could say they were being a bit too optimistic but considering the JF-17 can carry two 1200L drop tanks so I don't think there is any reason to doubt it can carry two of these (although not very practical due to the drag penalty.

Good to know - that means the weight they had on the image that I saw was for the ground launched system. Probably including the booster - which is probably not needed(smaller version needed) for the air launched system.