Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

[Oldenwisdom...قول بزرگ]

judgement

Who's judging, VC heng?
The argument never ends from those mere spectators and observers... every post is therefore a judgement and speculation.
YOU WANT THE LAST WORD?

Is that it? Or your speculation is masked by the events not lining up to what you hold in YOUR heart to be the truth and ultimate judgement? So, you not only save it for yourself but dissuade others who post what they see from their lying eyes ... to save the deductions on the path forward with one that you hope will align better with yours eventually?
Would you stop Iranians from cheering this deal and zionists from moaning and wait with baited breath for the tide to turn? You'd stop the moment to be realized by that which is yet to come?
When will your moment or judgement arise heng?

 

[Watandar]

US secondary sanctions do not allow that.
One of the earliest US secondary sanctions was about aviation.
It says that no country is allowed to reexport aviation components or airplanes that are less than 25 years old to Iran. And it applies to every aviation component or airplanes where the US holds more than 5% of its share/technology.

Yeah but sanctions also have a big political component. Armenia and Georgia are not facing these secondary sanctions for various reasons and Iran could follow similar approach. At the end of the day the Russians continue to fly modern Airbus Boeing planes and get the needed spare parts.

With the sanctions gone, there are a LOT of options. In my view it was the economic sanctions that were the most effective western weapon.

 

[VCheng]

events not lining up to what you hold in YOUR heart to be the truth and ultimate judgement?

LOL. Let the events happen first. Then we will see who has the last word.

 

[RocketLaw]

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Pakistan… the country that has worked miracles and has played—and continues to play—roles that the UN Security Council has been unable to fulfill: It is now announcing the completion of the signing of the peace agreement between the United States and Iran.

Pakistani Prime Minister Shehbaz Sharif announced: “The historic Islamabad Agreement between the United States and the Islamic Republic of Iran was signed electronically today. It was signed by the presidents of both countries and ratified by me in my capacity as mediator. The agreement takes effect immediately.” First step: Iran will immediately reopen the Strait of Hormuz, and the United States will immediately lift the naval blockade.

Shehbaz Sharif thanked President Trump for favoring a diplomatic solution and praised the U.S. negotiating team: Vance, Witkov, and Kushner. He also commended the wisdom of the Iranian leadership and extended special thanks to Saudi Arabia, Turkey, Egypt, and Qatar for their contributions, which he described as “indispensable.” He also thanked the Pakistani Army Chief, who played a pivotal role in facilitating this achievement.

The country whose image has been tarnished for decades... is the one forging the peace that the superpowers failed to achieve. The wise capitals that warned against and rejected war are the very ones that led the world to peace.

 

[ShapurII]

Dude, fleet size, network and revenues all prove you are wrong. Nothing wrong with being proud of Iran Air, it was a good airline, to say it was on par with Pan Am is just wrong. If you want comaprisons, Iran Air was probably behind PIA in the 60s and 70s, and I do not consider PIA a top 10 airline of the period.

First Jet airliner for PIA was in 1960, first for Iran Air was in 1965.
PIA's total fleet of 747s and 707s was larger then Iran Airs in the 60s and 70s, much larger.
In 1978 Iran Air flew to 31 International destinations, PIA flew to 40
Here you are now putting it in par with Pan AM.

Suggest we get back to topic now.

Since @AZ_HighCountry has already written a comprehensive post about it, I'm not going to reiterate what he has said but even as of today, Pakistan does not have direct flights to New York City, let alone in the 70s.
Even as of today, PIA flies to 28 international destinations. I wonder how you flew to 40 international destinations in 1978. Also, Iran Air and Iran Airtour were different air lines. So, the fleet size of Iran Air (~30) was only for international flights, while Iran Airtour operated its own fleet for local tours inside Iran. Iran Air alone operated 30 something aircraft by the end of 70s. Even as of today, PIA operates 35 aircraft per Wikipedia. Apples and oranges.

 

[ShapurII]

Yeah but sanctions also have a big political component. Armenia and Georgia are not facing these secondary sanctions for various reasons and Iran could follow similar approach. At the end of the day the Russians continue to fly modern Airbus Boeing planes and get the needed spare parts.

With the sanctions gone, there are a LOT of options. In my view it was the economic sanctions that were the most effective western weapon.

Russians are not under similar sanctions as Iran. Aviation sanctions on Iran date back to the hostage crisis and the Iraq-Iran war. As long as they're in place, Iran cannot purchase airplanes that are less than 25 years ago.

Even without secondary sanctions, Armenia and Georgia both suffer from aging fleets. I'm not sure what they have to offer us in the first place.

 

[KingQamaR]

What's funny is, Obama, who can't seem to remain in the background like his predecessors, has already come out and said a number of the terms of this deal are really no different than his was.

I have to agree with Obama on this. It has all of the sides of the JCPOA without a single upside. What a disaster.

 

[Watandar]

Russians are not under similar sanctions as Iran. Aviation sanctions on Iran date back to the hostage crisis and the Iraq-Iran war. As long as they're in place, Iran cannot purchase airplanes that are less than 25 years ago.

Even without secondary sanctions, Armenia and Georgia both suffer from aging fleets. I'm not sure what they have to offer us in the first place.

Really ? I had read that after Ukraine the Russkies were the most sanctioned country in the world, even beyond Iran. They have been banned from all tech products. For example, no spare parts or services for IBM Z supercomputers that Gazprom uses.

I had meant the Russian approach of importing all sanctioned stuff via third party companies in Armenia and Georgia and then using further shadow companies to send the product to Russia itself. Iran could use Pakistan or Turkiye or one of the GCC the same way and secondary sanctions issue would be unlikely.

Anyways enough discussion on this

 

[MS Sandhu]

Everyone want to see full TEXTS here - details

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If this is the final deal, Iran finally gave away its nuclear program on plate to Trump.
Happy & Rich Iran was never a problem for anyone in the GCC. Nukes were the problem and Trump bombed out nuclear infrastructure and whatever was there underground, got it in deal.

 

[BHAN85]

I



Americans jumped into an unwinnable war. They want out.

So they didn't know it before start the war?...again.

USA concealing their twisted destabilization plans as "errors", like always.

Iran war is similar scheme than Ukraine war. Instigate, destabilize and exit leaving the problems to allies.

USA burning the world before leave superpower status.

 

[MS Sandhu]

cancel a previous deal that gave you everything you wanted-start a war to regain what you gave up don’t succeed in this war, hurting your own economy and that of the entire world. Make a new deal that gives your enemies almost everything they want, in exchange for basically nothing truly the art of the deal, my friends

Bomb out what is on ground, get in deal what is underground and return the assets that were their own in first place.

Trump played Iran big time.

 

[Flotilla]

No. We're just bored now, that's all.

All military objectives were met, we control the Strait, Iran is in shambles, and now, thanks to taking over Venezuela, we're the dominant net energy exporter globally.

We're the boss.

Don't forget to seal your ticket when leaving Khalije Fars, dude.

 

[Immortals]

US secondary sanctions do not allow that.
One of the earliest US secondary sanctions was about aviation.
It says that no country is allowed to reexport aviation components or airplanes that are less than 25 years old to Iran. And it applies to every aviation component or airplanes where the US holds more than 5% of its share/technology.

If [final] deal is signed, Iran will be buying BIG BEAUTIFUL BOEING jets at a discount from Trump and America as well as from Macaroni & France.

Your always negative attitude is insufferable. While skepticism and cautious optimism is warranted given the lieing and treachours Americans. Your crying the last 10-20 pages of this thread is just unwarranted.

You have been consistently wrong this entire year. Including thinking Reza Pahlavi was the only “viable” option left for months (LOL!)

Please take a retreat and clear your mind and come back with a more positive [and realistic] Attitude.

 

[Meengla]

From Israelis to Iranian analysts, from GOP to Dems in US Congress and just about everyone who is not in the Trump administration or some super MAGA is saying this deal gives Iran the upper hand. It may not do much damage to America if the Petro Dollar stays but certainly is a strategic defeat of Israel and that's why the Israelis and their stooges in America are shell shocked.
Spinning it otherwise is not going to change the reality of the war and the post war period.

 

[Watandar]

Don't forget to seal your ticket when leaving Khalije Fars, dude.

that was a sarcastic comment by AZ. Seems to have gone over many people's heads lol.