Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

[Professor Jiang]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Meengla]

Whilst in that article it notes they crossed the SOH and came under fire, they were moving west to east, so what I found puzzling during the 2+ months of war they were sitting very close to Iran and were not targetted.

Immortal was referring to something else and you are to something else and both of you are correct: Iran is unable to hit the US fleet which is at a good distance from Iran but also, as you saying, Iran spared those US vessels which came very close to Iranian land some months ago.
I believe Iranians have tried to avoid causing major casualties to the American sailors so far. Imagine if 100 dead bodies arrived in America. Music to Netanyahu ears and a stimulus for the war hawks in America.

 

[Meengla]

Iran has 60 days to institutionalize it's hold. There is no way any paper signed or any "truth social" meme going to dictate another burning bulk carrier in the straits. During that time it can arrange the chess board while keeping the eyes on the ball.

The latest round of hostilities started after some cargo vessels tried to use an alternate round, which was against the Islamabad MOU, and those vessels were shot at by Iran. And now there is discussion about some kind of arrangements between Iran/Oman and even 'Fees' for environmental reasons. Even NY Times has referred to an 'emerging' deal in an article within last two days and I posted that.
Can we not see who is conceding here?

 

[Pakistan First]

I believe Iranians have tried to avoid causing major casualties to the American sailors so far. Imagine if 100 dead bodies arrived in America. Music to Netanyahu ears and a stimulus for the war hawks in America.

Actually, I never believed this logic. So whats the solution then? keep getting own people killed, own leaders killed, own nuclear sites hit ? Imagine if US choose to destroy our nuclear weapon program. We'd let them hit our facilities and won't go after their ships just to assume that they will stop on their own? I think best option would be to make it extremely costly for them and hit the very CSG from that attack has to happen. There's no other good option. Also I think Iran did / or hit whatever it could. If Iran had capability of hitting US warship successfully then it would have done so. There were reports in past where Iranian missiles & drones were launched towards those but intercepted. Trump also said some 100 missiles were launched towards CSG.

If a country has capability to hit enemy warships at will then by all means I think hitting a warship early in the battle creates deterrence. Yes US would become angry and can do massive attack as retaliation but at same time, it would also know that this war can go extremely costly in terms of human loss and assets. No president wants to be reason for bringing more and more body bags home. If country possess unstoppable, long range anti ship missiles and they hit one of warship that also serves as a warning that we will hit your carrier next time if you keep attacking us. So I think Iran did not had that capability. If it had, then what a waste to invest in a capability that you are never going to use out of "fear". What else red line had to be crossed when US actually destroyed nuclear facilities and killed leaders ? All red lines crossed already.

Also, attacking a warship is not attacking american civilians. Even though america is killing Iranian civilians too. Attacking warship is only defending yourself. Because Iran would be practically attacking soldiers who are killing its people and firing missiles towards it. Choosing not to attack enemy's weapon system deliberately that is actively involved in war means surrender. Which we know Iran won't do. So i think Iran did not spared those warships deliberately. I think Iran tried at times but those ships are very capably in terms of air defense.

 

[RzA]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Flotilla]

Immortal was referring to something else and you are to something else and both of you are correct: Iran is unable to hit the US fleet which is at a good distance from Iran but also, as you saying, Iran spared those US vessels which came very close to Iranian land some months ago.
I believe Iranians have tried to avoid causing major casualties to the American sailors so far. Imagine if 100 dead bodies arrived in America. Music to Netanyahu ears and a stimulus for the war hawks in América

Yes. I agree. Even just a Nasr (C701) could easily be launched against any ship in the South corridor. US knows It and that is why US is pressuring Irán to reach an agreement.

Otherwise even UK and EU would join to this stupid convoy system in SOH. Even France carefully avoided to close to SOH.

 

[Flotilla]

If country possess unstoppable, long range anti ship missiles and they hit one of warship that also serves as a warning that we will hit your carrier next time if you keep attacking us.

Untrue. If Irán would have launched missiles at will against any US Navy warship you can be sure Trump would say It like he does regularly.
Irán also has refrained from hitting other high value targets. They could have hit even hardened shelters in Jordania as they did once.

US knows very well what can do their weaponry. And because of It they're trying desperately to reach an agreement.

Lastly. Remember Irán just once used an antiship ballistic missile with devastating effects. That is the proof that they can hit whatever tanker or civilian ship close their waters.

 

[Meengla]

Actually, I never believed this logic. So whats the solution then? keep getting own people killed, own leaders killed, own nuclear sites hit ? Imagine if US choose to destroy our nuclear weapon program. We'd let them hit our facilities and won't go after their ships just to assume that they will stop on their own? I think best option would be to make it extremely costly for them and hit the very CSG from that attack has to happen. There's no other good option. Also I think Iran did / or hit whatever it could. If Iran had capability of hitting US warship successfully then it would have done so. There were reports in past where Iranian missiles & drones were launched towards those but intercepted. Trump also said some 100 missiles were launched towards CSG.

You need to go back to the Oman discussions just before the 28 Feb. war on Iran was launched and see how much Iran was willing to concede in order to prevent the destruction which fell upon Iran as a result of the war starting 28 Feb. And then compare with where Iran stands now on negotiations. The pre 28 discussions were Iran capitulating on just about everything except giving up on the missile program. The Islamabad MOU is Washington capitulating, even if they won't honor that.
There is a huge difference between the two.
And, yes, Iran could have easily hit and even sink those American vessels which ventured into the Strait as part of Trump's 'Freedom' move and I think Iran even shot projectiles but over the ships/nearby as warning. Iran may not be able to do harm to the CSG deployed far away but is certainly able to do major damage to the ships in or near the Strait. It has so far wisely chosen not to and the Trump admin has so far wisely chosen not to destroy Iran's civilian infra.

 

[ShapurII]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

@ShapurII
@Persian Gulf
@Shags101

It's good to think that we have enough missiles to keep the war going, but we have a serious issue that we don't know how to address and that is target selection and real-time data. Sometimes we refuse to hit targets simply because we're not ready for going up the escalation ladder.

As long as the US Navy has imposed a naval blockade on us and the Omani route of the Strait of Hormuz is leaky, it is only a matter of time before we have to sign another useless MoU with the United States.

 

[ShapurII]

Actually, I never believed this logic. So whats the solution then? keep getting own people killed, own leaders killed, own nuclear sites hit ? Imagine if US choose to destroy our nuclear weapon program. We'd let them hit our facilities and won't go after their ships just to assume that they will stop on their own? I think best option would be to make it extremely costly for them and hit the very CSG from that attack has to happen. There's no other good option. Also I think Iran did / or hit whatever it could. If Iran had capability of hitting US warship successfully then it would have done so. There were reports in past where Iranian missiles & drones were launched towards those but intercepted. Trump also said some 100 missiles were launched towards CSG.

If a country has capability to hit enemy warships at will then by all means I think hitting a warship early in the battle creates deterrence. Yes US would become angry and can do massive attack as retaliation but at same time, it would also know that this war can go extremely costly in terms of human loss and assets. No president wants to be reason for bringing more and more body bags home. If country possess unstoppable, long range anti ship missiles and they hit one of warship that also serves as a warning that we will hit your carrier next time if you keep attacking us. So I think Iran did not had that capability. If it had, then what a waste to invest in a capability that you are never going to use out of "fear". What else red line had to be crossed when US actually destroyed nuclear facilities and killed leaders ? All red lines crossed already.

Also, attacking a warship is not attacking american civilians. Even though america is killing Iranian civilians too. Attacking warship is only defending yourself. Because Iran would be practically attacking soldiers who are killing its people and firing missiles towards it. Choosing not to attack enemy's weapon system deliberately that is actively involved in war means surrender. Which we know Iran won't do. So i think Iran did not spared those warships deliberately. I think Iran tried at times but those ships are very capably in terms of air defense.

I think the truth is that the Islamic Republic no longer has strong motivation to hit the Americans like it did in the first three weeks of the Ramadhan War. When the Americans killed Ali Khamenei and they felt that the end was imminent, they fought much more aggressively than when a new Supreme Leader was elected by the Assembly of Experts and Trump said he no longer sought regime change.

 

[Flotilla]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

Does anybody remember a ballistic missile volley IRGC style of Russian forces?.

Just two days ago, Zelenski was nagging because Ukraine was not receiving enough PAC3 missiles and just after, Russians launch this large missile volley IRGC style.

I don't recall any missile launch like this in Russians theater.

 

[Immortals]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Immortals]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[Eşbah]

Also keep in mind Trump will wait till after midterms then say if Iran tries to close the SoH or charge tolls he will bomb them again. Iran will have little leverage. In 3-4 months, US will produce ~400-500 PAC-3’s and reload their defenses ready for another pathetic skirmish by Iran.

100% right. People need to understand this crucial detail.

Many users tend to overlook this point when they argue that the US will refrain from military action if the Democrats secure victory in the midterm elections.

The reality is that they will just alter the legal justification for the war in Washington, arguing that Iran is now hindering and blocking an international maritime trade route.

While their actions and war objectives will remain unchanged, the legal framework will be modified to justify a new series of attacks. The Democrats will endorse this approach, explaining to their voter base that adherence to international law is essential!

BS excuses to relaunch the war.

 

[Immortals]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies