PAF J-10CE News, Updates and Discussion

[m52k85]

from memory, PAF's fleet strength is tied to the IAF's, Mujahid Anwar Khan mentioned a ratio, though, ive forgotten now

Yes, I also remember a 1.35 to 1.75 ratio some ACM mentioned, along with a sweet spot of between 375 to 400 combat airplanes. However we do not know on what part of the fleet the PAF high-ups apply the ratio.

If we look at BVR enabled squadrons, PAF has 12 (8 + 3 + 1) and IAF 21 (12 + 3 + 3 + 2 + 1) with more Tejas in the pipeline. PAF will surely be worried. Also, the current IAF chief has told the public pretty much the best IAF can do is 35 squadrons in the next 10 years. If PAF can increase the mix of BVR squadrons they will continue to sit in a comfortable place even if overall sqd numbers decrease slightly.

The only problem is the only near term options for PAF are looking risky (Jf-17 next iteration in development and no evidence of further J-10 purchase), in other words there could very possibly be nothing in the pipeline as opposed to the IAF having 4 odd Tejas squadrons in the works.

PAF could also be looking at AESA based BVR squadrons, and looking to maintain a good ratio on those, but ofcourse those developments are much harder to spot in the public.

 

[ghazi52]

 

[ghazi52]

 

[CSAW]

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[Fatman17]

 

[GatlingGun]

Yes, I also remember a 1.35 to 1.75 ratio some ACM mentioned, along with a sweet spot of between 375 to 400 combat airplanes. However we do not know on what part of the fleet the PAF high-ups apply the ratio.

If we look at BVR enabled squadrons, PAF has 12 (8 + 3 + 1) and IAF 21 (12 + 3 + 3 + 2 + 1) with more Tejas in the pipeline. PAF will surely be worried. Also, the current IAF chief has told the public pretty much the best IAF can do is 35 squadrons in the next 10 years. If PAF can increase the mix of BVR squadrons they will continue to sit in a comfortable place even if overall sqd numbers decrease slightly.

The only problem is the only near term options for PAF are looking risky (Jf-17 next iteration in development and no evidence of further J-10 purchase), in other words there could very possibly be nothing in the pipeline as opposed to the IAF having 4 odd Tejas squadrons in the works.

PAF could also be looking at AESA based BVR squadrons, and looking to maintain a good ratio on those, but ofcourse those developments are much harder to spot in the public.

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[m52k85]

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Economic realities starting to catch-up again. It last happened in the late 90s early 2000s in the context of the two airforces. Back then Pakistan corrected it by paying a high cost by saying 'Yes sir', let's see what cost we are willing to pay to correct the developing imbalance..

I'm guessing this is the third batch beyond the first 40 and the second 80 odd?

 

[GatlingGun]

Economic realities starting to catch-up again. It last happened in the late 90s early 2000s in the context of the two airforces. Back then Pakistan corrected it by paying a high cost by saying 'Yes sir', let's see what cost we are willing to pay to correct the developing imbalance..

I'm guessing this is the third batch beyond the first 40 and the second 80 odd?

Yes 40 MK1 ~ jf17 blk2 equivalent,

83+97 =
180 mk1A ~ blk3 equivalent.

Now it depends how many blk2 pakistan can upgrade to blk3.

 

[Hopefully Pessimistic]

ACM Sohail Aman. 1:1.35 to 1:1.75

Is that ratio for fighter aircraft?

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

 

[ghazi52]

 

[FuturePAF]

I don't know the legal technicalities but Turkey didn't really ask for permission for the Özgür program from what I can tell.

But I’d assume exporting the upgrade kit requires US approval, otherwise the PAF would have already sought that upgrade or at least joined the project to make sure it could be customized to PAF requirements ASAP.

 

[FuturePAF]

Economic realities starting to catch-up again. It last happened in the late 90s early 2000s in the context of the two airforces. Back then Pakistan corrected it by paying a high cost by saying 'Yes sir', let's see what cost we are willing to pay to correct the developing imbalance..

I'm guessing this is the third batch beyond the first 40 and the second 80 odd?

Probably something that enables the PAF to upgrade the 75-78 F-16s with the Ozgur upgrade from Turkey and enable the jets to carry the Turkish Bozdogan, Gokdogan, and GoKhan Ducted Ramjet Missiles (a match for the Meteor). A SLEP to extend the lives of the air frames and possible a purchase of 18 used F-16s, to create a force of 5 full strength F-16 squadrons (90 jets) with some of the few oldest Airframes kept in reserve. The F-16s would once again retain the psychological threat to the Indians, even with the Rafales.

But like you said the price would be high. A black check “Yes, Sir” situation considering the poor economic situation.

 

[LegionnairE]

But I’d assume exporting the upgrade kit requires US approval, otherwise the PAF would have already sought that upgrade or at least joined the project to make sure it could be customized to PAF requirements ASAP.

PAF probably will. Özgür program isn't over yet.

 

[_NOBODY_]

Probably something that enables the PAF to upgrade the 75-78 F-16s with the Ozgur upgrade from Turkey and enable the jets to carry the Turkish Bozdogan, Gokdogan, and GoKhan Ducted Ramjet Missiles (a match for the Meteor). A SLEP to extend the lives of the air frames and possible a purchase of 18 used F-16s, to create a force of 5 full strength F-16 squadrons (90 jets) with some of the few oldest Airframes kept in reserve. The F-16s would once again retain the psychological threat to the Indians, even with the Rafales.

But like you said the price would be high. A black check “Yes, Sir” situation considering the poor economic situation.

In my opinion, it would be incredibly stupid of the US to ever approve the Özgür upgrade for our F-16s. The US would rather offer PAF the V upgrade than the Özgür upgrade.