PAF J-10CE News, Updates and Discussion

[FuturePAF]

In my opinion, it would be incredibly stupid of the US to ever approve the Özgür upgrade for our F-16s. The US would rather offer PAF the V upgrade than the Özgür upgrade.

Not necessarily. They may not want to offer anything and the Ozgur is the most they would allow to be done to the planes to keep the PAF onboard, because without the F-16 the PAF won’t have any major US platform (outside of the C-130). The V upgrade is what Taiwan has and they may not want the PAF to know the ins and out of that radar.

 

[maverick]

Yes, I also remember a 1.35 to 1.75 ratio some ACM mentioned, along with a sweet spot of between 375 to 400 combat airplanes. However we do not know on what part of the fleet the PAF high-ups apply the ratio.

If we look at BVR enabled squadrons, PAF has 12 (8 + 3 + 1) and IAF 21 (12 + 3 + 3 + 2 + 1) with more Tejas in the pipeline. PAF will surely be worried. Also, the current IAF chief has told the public pretty much the best IAF can do is 35 squadrons in the next 10 years. If PAF can increase the mix of BVR squadrons they will continue to sit in a comfortable place even if overall sqd numbers decrease slightly.

The only problem is the only near term options for PAF are looking risky (Jf-17 next iteration in development and no evidence of further J-10 purchase), in other words there could very possibly be nothing in the pipeline as opposed to the IAF having 4 odd Tejas squadrons in the works.

PAF could also be looking at AESA based BVR squadrons, and looking to maintain a good ratio on those, but ofcourse those developments are much harder to spot in the public.

BVR capable squardons should be around 20+ by 2030, besides that AF needs more tonnage to deliver, like F15E Strike aircraft... but anyways, a different topic not here on J10CP

 

[_NOBODY_]

Not necessarily. They may not want to offer anything and the Ozgur is the most they would allow to be done to the planes. The V upgrade is what Taiwan has and they may not want the PAF to know the ins and out of that radar.

Why would they allow Turkey to make money from upgrading American equipment when they can earn this money themselves? The US will eventually allow Pakistan to get the V upgrade, the question is whether it will be too late by then.

 

[ghazi52]

 

[FuturePAF]

Why would they allow Turkey to make money from upgrading American equipment when they can earn this money themselves? The US will eventually allow Pakistan to get the V upgrade, the question is whether it will be too late by then.

Pakistan would have to sweeten the deal by buying enough American Ammo and services (Specifically Lockheed products primarily but all the major 5-6 defense contractors) across the three services to make it worth it, and get the defense contractors to lobby for the upgrade.

Buying 18 used F-16C/D plus the following upgrades for 90 planes (5 Squadrons)

1. Auto GCAS upgrade for F-16s
2. A Lockheed supplied and supported overhaul facility in Pakistan for the F-16s
3. F-16 Drogue refueling system
4. Triple Missile launcher
5. Towed decoy
6. A new engine for each plane plus a few extras
7. IRST21 pod and/or Sniper targeting pod
8. 500 AMRAAMs and 500 Aim-9Xs

The key components from turkey from the Ozgur upgrade would be the AESA Radar, jamming pods, mission computer, avionics, cockpit, smart helmet (which could be carried over into the KAAN program when the F-16s retire)

Beyond the F-16:
More Bombardier Global 6000 for the Havasoj program and Saab Globaleye program and Embarer 1000 for the MPA, all non-American products but all have American components.

Avionics modernization for the C-130s

Seahawk (MH-60R) helicopters with lightweight torpedos, ESSM, Rolling airframe missile for the Jinnah Class frigates

Upgrade to the P-3 Orions to extend their lives (upgrades that could be transferred over to the Sea Sultans when the lives of the P-3s run out)

 

[warking2005]

I think lack of J10Cs is due to pilot training and PAF is very very uncompromising on training.

 

[Hopefully Pessimistic]

I think lack of J10Cs is due to pilot training and PAF is very very uncompromising on training.

I think funds

 

[ghazi52]

AERIAL WARRIOR
@zspcl

PL-15 has been redesigned with cropped main & tail control fins, with a smaller wingspan ; Powered by a dual pulse rocket motor at Mach4Equipped with 2-way datalink for dynamic retargeting in the airActive seeker uses an AESA aperture with narrow acquisition beam for ECCM

9:17 PM · Apr 12, 2024

 

[Fatman17]

 

[Windjammer]

 

[m52k85]

Yes, I also remember a 1.35 to 1.75 ratio some ACM mentioned, along with a sweet spot of between 375 to 400 combat airplanes. However we do not know on what part of the fleet the PAF high-ups apply the ratio.

If we look at BVR enabled squadrons, PAF has 12 (8 + 3 + 1) and IAF 21 (12 + 3 + 3 + 2 + 1) with more Tejas in the pipeline. PAF will surely be worried. Also, the current IAF chief has told the public pretty much the best IAF can do is 35 squadrons in the next 10 years. If PAF can increase the mix of BVR squadrons they will continue to sit in a comfortable place even if overall sqd numbers decrease slightly.

The only problem is the only near term options for PAF are looking risky (Jf-17 next iteration in development and no evidence of further J-10 purchase), in other words there could very possibly be nothing in the pipeline as opposed to the IAF having 4 odd Tejas squadrons in the works.

PAF could also be looking at AESA based BVR squadrons, and looking to maintain a good ratio on those, but ofcourse those developments are much harder to spot in the public.

This is how PAFs Air Superiority balance sheet would be looking at the moment, as you can see there is a little breathing room of a couple of years to consolidate:



Key take aways:
1. Additional Rafale acquisitions will need to be met with expedition of J-10 timeline.
2. Jf-17 iterations well positioned to counter balance Tejas acquisitions however high risk options need to be backed up with proven options in order to avoid surprises.
3. Slack present in existing Jf-17 fleet to counter act planned upgrades in Russian origin fleet should IAF efforts bear fruitation.

And this is only a high level platform summary with financials removed, there would be whole optimisation down to munitions level in actual PAF plans. Just to give our future generations a peak.

 

[ghazi52]

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]

 

[FOOLS_NIGHTMARE]