Iranian UAVs | News and Discussions

MALE drones have a higher cost and higher operating cost per hour than low endurance and low altitude drones. Their use on a modern battlefield anywhere near contested territory is dropping.

Iranian MALE drones are just as susceptible (if not more so) than American/Israeli/Chinese MALE drones to being shot down. If HZ/Houthi’s can use a 358 loitering missile to knock these prized possessions out of the air, then imagine a western army with heavy air defense capability. Hopefully it explains why Gaza, Fotros, and Kaman-22 aren’t being produced in any meaningful numbers. Fotros in particular might not even exist outside of less than <10 drones number could be as low <5.


Either go low observable (LO) @ HALE or go cheap and suicide like (S-136 class) the middle class is vulnerable and borderline impotent against hot conflicts, much like today’s Bomber aircraft (B-52/B-1) are useless in hot conflicts.
I'm confused. First and foremost Iranian 'MALE' are cheap relative to their counterparts which you skirted. Secondly, who and where is applying them where they are currently susceptible?


At the end there is a need for surveillance and if they do get shot down by expensive systems so be it. You may want to discuss that with Hezbollah, BTW who's sending these against the depleted opponent. You're thinking far too 1980s and conventionally.
 
I'm confused. First and foremost Iranian 'MALE' are cheap relative to their counterparts which you skirted.

Cheap under what assumption? TB-2 is estimated to cost $2-3M. What does Gaza cost? Kaman-22? You say cheap as if you saw the invoices yourself.

To their counterparts is irrelevant. Cheap maybe for a country like Russia with a $60-80B military budget or China with a budget of $250B+. Cheap is relative to the military budget of the country. For Iran with a limited military budget just because it’s cheaper than a Hermes or Predator means nothing. Iran also doesn’t have the military budget of a US or Russia or the free military aid of Israel.

Secondly, who and where is applying them where they are currently susceptible?

The discussion is about their future use. Try to keep up with the conversation if you like to join in.

At the end there is a need for surveillance

many drone platforms can provide surveillance without reaching MALE category in cost and operation of a Gaza/Fotros. Task of Surveillance becomes hard when your enemy can spot you based your large RCS and medium altitude you operate in.

As we saw TB-2 literally get plucked out of the sky quickly once Russian air defenses came to the front lines. Now TB-2 is largely absent from the battlefield. Instead it’s dominated by FPVs, quadcopters, scan Eagle like drones on both sides.
 
Cheap under what assumption? TB-2 is estimated to cost $2-3M. What does Gaza cost? Kaman-22? You say cheap as if you saw the invoices yourself.

To their counterparts is irrelevant. Cheap maybe for a country like Russia with a $60-80B military budget or China with a budget of $250B+. Cheap is relative to the military budget of the country. For Iran with a limited military budget just because it’s cheaper than a Hermes or Predator means nothing. Iran also doesn’t have the military budget of a US or Russia or the free military aid of Israel.
Iran faces insurgencies and terrorists on many borders (primarily Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan). MALE drones with large payloads and flight times are a great tool to provide surveillance and precision striking capabilities against these threats. HALE drones are not necessary against these insurgents

the other option is helicopters but they are more expensive than drones and if you lose a helicopter you likely lose the pilots as well, which is not a risk with drones

long range supersonic bomber drones may be a good idea if iran had an enemy state on its borders, but Israel is 1200km+ away and protected by Western bases in between so any tactical air power based strategy will be very difficult to pull off
 
Iran faces insurgencies and terrorists on many borders (primarily Iraq, Pakistan, Afghanistan). MALE drones with large payloads and flight times are a great tool to provide surveillance and precision striking capabilities against these threats. HALE drones are not necessary against these insurgents

the other option is helicopters but they are more expensive than drones and if you lose a helicopter you likely lose the pilots as well, which is not a risk with drones

long range supersonic bomber drones may be a good idea if iran had an enemy state on its borders, but Israel is 1200km+ away and protected by Western bases in between so any tactical air power based strategy will be very difficult to pull off
Exactly what i wanted to say

Like AH-1J or Mi-28, they are great tools to target precisely a car of terrorists for example or gun down fleeing terrorists, and greatly limit collateral damage

Last day a car of terrorist got precisely targeted without any collateral damage, by a MALE drone

This also gives Iran the capability of doing this a little outside its borders or safely launch missiles from inside the borders (Taliban, Komala and Jundallah are the main groups that are great food for MALE ucavs)
 
Cheap under what assumption? TB-2 is estimated to cost $2-3M. What does Gaza cost? Kaman-22? You say cheap as if you saw the invoices yourself.

To their counterparts is irrelevant. Cheap maybe for a country like Russia with a $60-80B military budget or China with a budget of $250B+. Cheap is relative to the military budget of the country. For Iran with a limited military budget just because it’s cheaper than a Hermes or Predator means nothing. Iran also doesn’t have the military budget of a US or Russia or the free military aid of Israel.



The discussion is about their future use. Try to keep up with the conversation if you like to join in.



many drone platforms can provide surveillance without reaching MALE category in cost and operation of a Gaza/Fotros. Task of Surveillance becomes hard when your enemy can spot you based your large RCS and medium altitude you operate in.

As we saw TB-2 literally get plucked out of the sky quickly once Russian air defenses came to the front lines. Now TB-2 is largely absent from the battlefield. Instead it’s dominated by FPVs, quadcopters, scan Eagle like drones on both sides.
Again connecting dots and (or)rationalizing. Not to mention scattering the topic all over the place.

Given cursory information, Iranian systems are cheap in an absolute sense.

Period.

Debunking this requires to many words to decode . Like your response.
 
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Really interesting. Do anyone know what the missile below is.

P

View attachment 37622

it s a black suicide drone from shahed family, maybe it has enforced the stealth features on this flavour. It look bad ass and so dangerous for the other end, sincerely.

Another point to add, this drone is jet powered, go more fast, this drone is the ghost of the night.
 
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basically a lot of sectors in iran have drones


Seems like a waste.

All that money spent building non Radar evasion drone designs and using loud radiation prop powered drones could go towards building LO and VLO cruise missiles with supersonic microjet engines.

Then you don’t need to fire 500 drones so that 10-20% make it thru and can fire 50 high tier weapons and have 75-80% make it thru.

Especially once laser air defense systems start becoming more and more common, swarms of slow moving and detectable objects will be easily disposed of by a cost efficiency laser jet beam that cost Pennies on the dollar vs today’s $100K-$3M interceptors. It will be the “AA” gun of the 22nd century.

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Seems like a waste.

All that money spent building non Radar evasion drone designs and using loud radiation prop powered drones could go towards building LO and VLO cruise missiles with supersonic microjet engines.

Then you don’t need to fire 500 drones so that 10-20% make it thru and can fire 50 high tier weapons and have 75-80% make it thru.

Especially once laser air defense systems start becoming more and more common, swarms of slow moving and detectable objects will be easily disposed of by a cost efficiency laser jet beam that cost Pennies on the dollar vs today’s $100K-$3M interceptors. It will be the “AA” gun of the 22nd century.

View attachment 37746
1706233235421.webp
These drones are cheap to build. With the money of one of these expensive drones, Iran can make dozens of these cheaper drones.

For fast and expensive attacks, we have ballistic missiles.
 
These drones are cheap to build. With the money of one of these expensive drones, Iran can make dozens of these cheaper drones.

For fast and expensive attacks, we have ballistic missiles.

Yes, you know what else is cheap to build? Arrows and cannon balls. Last I checked those aren’t used in warfare anymore.

You will [eventually] be wasting resources and wasting money as newer [defensive] technologies come online to combat older tech. This is natural evolution of warfare.

$20K-75K/drone for America is not a lot when it’s budget is 900B or China whose military budget is 300B or even Russia who is at 100B. For a sanctioned Iran that is still substantial at 15-20B.

15,000 drones costing average price of let’s say $50,000 is $750M USD. To put it in perspective, Iran’s S-300 deal with Russia was $800M

There is nothing wrong with swarm warfare especially if Iran is fighting Azeribajian or Saudi Arabia. But against a higher peer opponent (Israel or US), it becomes a lot less sustainable. If you cannot quickly and sufficiently degrade your opponents defenses then it becomes a war of attrition.

Look at Ukraine, look at the amount of ordnances that Russia has dropped on Ukraine it exceeds the amount of missiles Iran likely has in its inventory. Russia is firing over 10,000 artillery shells a day. That’s not even taking into the hundreds of thousands of KGs in FAB bombs it’s dropping.

Yet it has failed to gain air superiority due to NATO replenishment. So even a sub-tier military power can stand up to a mighty war machine if it has enough funding and replenishment despite getting pulverized by the air constantly.

And here is another problem. You fire 10,000 drones let’s say 25% get thru 2,500 drones with 20kg warheads aren’t going substantially degrade your opponent.

It’s going to take you months to rebuild that inventory. But unlike Russia where you can safely build a Shahed mega factory without worry about it being bombed, all of Iran’s drone manufacturing will be under constant attack meaning that replenishing supply of suicide drones will be hard against a peer to peer opponent.


My point: It’s important to begin investing in higher tier threat multiplier platforms. That includes high altitude supersonic VLO bomber drones, that includes stealth cruise missiles, that includes SuperSonics and eventually Hypersonics.

You don’t have to completely abandon the low cost swarm approach, but you shouldn’t be putting all your eggs in a basket thinking firing a volley after volley of arrows will eventually break thru a shield. You might run out of arrows by the time it does.
 

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