Egyptian Armed Forces

[xbat]

F16 yes ..as they are rapidly deployable

Ef no...it's going to be kaan and lot of drones

Though what's going on with turkey economy

if you were the TuAf chief, would you want f16 in 2028-2030? instead of KAAN? Turkey has 234(or 238) F16 which makes it the second largest operator in the world.

US congress approved 20b+ dolar budget for purchase but Turkey didnt put an order yet.
EF is meaningless for us, if it was 20+ years ago that would be good but now it is foolish. Dont take news serious on media , Remember british type23 frigates for turkey, there was news about it but Turkish navy answered harshly and ordered 8 istif class.

Economy is bad and going to worse but Turkish economy is large when you compare with our region. This kind of purchase doesnt effect overall economic situation.

 

[Corax]

View attachment 45501

Have you heard of this Chinese system???

This was the reason why Egypt too the risk and chance to let the Chinese have a close tour on the F-16..

So let me get this right, the Egyptians risked sanctions from the US and their Viper fleet just for a Chinese standoff jammer? Okkaaaaay what platform did they intend to integrate it with? Is it operational? If so, on what platform?

 

[Corax]

Has it, really? Just because of 1 skirmish? Now before you judge my response, I'm not taking anything away from the PAF Feb. 2019 shootdown. If anything, the fact that the PAF was able to take the initiative on that particular kill is only a testament that adds & supports what I'm saying with regards to the training factor. The fact that the PAF trains so well gave them that ability to take the quick initiative and make the kill faster than the IAF pilot did.

But at the same time, that could've gone either way which I think is a huge factor many miss. Not to mention the aircraft that was targeted, was in no way comparable to the PAF F-16B. Despite how great the Indian MiG-21 Bison is (hell it's on my avatar lol), it's still no comparison to the F-16 and the munition difference between the two at that time. Not to mention the ground control issues that greatly affected the outcome AND the distance. That distance is reported on almost every single online source as 7 kilometers. 7 KILOMETERS, my friend.

I had this discussion on another Air Power forum where all these ex-pilots talk heavy techno lingo and the general consensus between all the available & published information was that the distance was anywhere from 5km to 25km. That's within range of 98% of current SHORT-RANGE missiles! My point is as great as it was, it's hardly an indication that the great concept of BVR and greater distance-capable missiles are the dominant factor that make one platform "useless" vs the other.



Sure, that too. But the main reason is because of past aerial battle history between the Egyptian air force & Israeli.

When they pulled off that sleezy preemptive attack in 1967 and destroyed practically our entire air force on the ground, we never had even had a chance to go up against them. So they were all high & mighty on their halucination that they were some superior entity and that Egyptian pilots were no match and all that crap. How could they even think that when we didn't even have a chance to fight? But that was the problem we see even until today, people give them way more credit than they deserve because right after that, from 1967 to 1970 the EAF conducted the War of Attrition which saw a lot of dogfighting where we also lost a lot of battles but scored a bunch of wins as well. The stigma started changing and they began to realize they weren't all that they thought they were and more importantly, the EAF & Egyptian determination wasn't what they thought it was.

Then the October War of 1973 happened and things really took a turn, especially on the 14th of October during the battle of Al Mansoura. The Israelis tried to conduct another attack on Egyptain air bases in Tanta and Al Mansoura as a diversion to conduct their crossing of the Suez Canal in Sinai and that's when they ran into the real EAF. The zionist sent over 100 Phantoms & Skyhawks to bomb the two air bases and Mubarak who was the air force chief at the time and planned the defense of the bases and told all the squadrons to hold position until the zionist came within a few kilometers then sent the MiG-21s who pounced on the enemy. That air battle lasted 57 minutes straight and, in the end, the losses were 17 enemy aircraft to 3 EAF MiG-21s.

THAT is what changed the entire perception and has made the zionist scared shitless of the EAF and why they fight tooth & nail to prevent us from acquiring any advanced BVR missiles because they know that with those, they would be in a heap of crap. More so than the population factor you mentioned.



Weaning off? I don't think that's the proper term. The only reason Egypt accepted the military aid was because it knew that without it at the time, the zionist were going to get it and that would've left Egypt in the dark and way behind. That was the only way to stay within reach as much as possible. It was the best option and made all the sense.

Think of the heavy price the US has to pay Egypt for that QME it cares so much about. Why not bribe the crap out of the US and benefit from it as much as possible while at the same time, add to that bribery with other equipment from other sources and that's what we've been doing. When you say "weaning off" you give the impression that it's like a baby dependent on mommy's titty milk when that's so insulting and demeaning lol, it's not even close to reality. People use that to make it sound like Egypt is totally dependent on the US, and while a large percentage of the equipment is, there is also a large contingent of equipment from other sources. We had a huge fleet of Mirage 5s for decades. Huge fleet of F-7s, Apha Jets, even K-8 Karakorum. Funny how people ignore that, isn't it?

Our Navy is huge ranked 1st in Africa, 6th in the world and would swallow the zionist navy whole. Made up of US, French, Italian, German, Chinese and other European platforms funny how people ignore that, isn't it?

Our air defense which is HUGE is made up mostly of Russian systems, the best in the world. Now we've brought in the IRIS-T-SL/SLM which is a deadly advanced German system and purchasing more because of how prolific it is and how much the EADS loves it.

Our Armored Corp. While most of the tanks are in fact US-made in the M1A1 Abrams & M60/A3s, the new contracts were for the local assembly of the 500 Russian T-90MS' and now has shifted to a similar number of the deadly Korean K2.

Add the Rafale (that's a shift away from the US even though it's considered "western"), the MiG-29M/M2s, the attempt at the Su-35S at least was a valiant effort but not at the cost of ruining the Egyptian economy - a credit to Sisi which goes unnoticed because he's a "dictator, suppressing his own people" lol. Another false misconception designed to degrade and defame only.

So you see, that "weaning off" you're talking about, started a loooong time ago.

Things are much more involved than simplistic observations like BVR missiles only. Fact is, there is so much more that factors in and the EAF's F-16s are a huge and vert effective part of the current structure, regardless of the AIM-7 vs the AIM-120.

I wasn't referring to the shooting down of the Mig-21, but that's my fault for not making it clear. I suggest you take a closer look at Operation Swift Retort, more specifically the top cover used in the operation. The Vipers and AMRAAMs kept the Su-30MKIs, Mirage 2ks, and Mig-29s at bay, without them getting a single AAM off in response. Yes, there was a lot of stand off jamming deployed, with the Mirage 2ks leaving the fray due to "radar issues" according to the indians, but nonetheless the BVR reach of the AMRAAMs did their job, with the Su-30MKIs having to "dodge AMRAAMs". The PAF even claim to have hit an MKI, but that's still open to conjecture.

In contrast, compare that with the Kargil conflict in the late 90s, when the PAF had to go up against a BVR equipped IAF with standard Block-15 F-16A/B models with just Sidewinders and no AMRAAMs, the story was quite different. There were several occasions when PAF Vipers were locked on by IAF Mig-29s and had to break off from their CAPs, which meant the PAF was essentially not even in the game in that conflict. I suggest you read Air Commodore Kaiser Tufail's blog and account of the PAF in the Kargil conflict.

Like I said, you can claim all you want about anti-BVR, jamming, whatnot, but in actual operational matters, it plays a decisive role. Look, I get it, of course you're going to play down the BVR advantage of the IAF, why wouldn't you, and if the EAF had AMRAAMs, you'd be singing their praise. But the fact of the matter is, the IAF will always have a qualitative edge over its Arab neighbours due to the US. Case in point, the IAF have a burgeoning fleet of F35s, while the EAF is just now getting BVR!! Next you'll be telling me how the F35 is trash and stealth doesn't matter because there's countermeasures against it.

 

[ziaulislam]

if you were the TuAf chief, would you want f16 in 2028-2030? instead of KAAN? Turkey has 234(or 238) F16 which makes it the second largest operator in the world.

US congress approved 20b+ dolar budget for purchase but Turkey didnt put an order yet.
EF is meaningless for us, if it was 20+ years ago that would be good but now it is foolish. Dont take news serious on media , Remember british type23 frigates for turkey, there was news about it but Turkish navy answered harshly and ordered 8 istif class.

Economy is bad and going to worse but Turkish economy is large when you compare with our region. This kind of purchase doesnt effect overall economic situation.

I would as no grantee when kaan would enter ...

 

[Ghostkiller]

The Egyptian army maintains its Arab leadership in the Global Fire Power classification for the year 2024​

View attachment 45512

The Egyptian army maintained its position as the strongest Arab army, and improved its position globally in the latest “Global Fire Power” classification for the year 2024, where it ranked 15th in the world, ahead of Israel (ranked 17th).

This achievement comes as a culmination of the Egyptian army’s ongoing development and modernization efforts, with the support of the political leadership, in line with the rapid developments in the field of armament and war technology.

Features of Egyptian power:

Manpower: The Egyptian army includes about 450,000 active soldiers and 480,000 soldiers in the reserve forces, which constitutes a massive human force trained at the highest levels.

Air Force: A huge air fleet that includes more than 1,050 various military aircraft, including fighters, attack aircraft, cargo aircraft, training aircraft, and helicopters, giving Egypt a tremendous ability to control the air and carry out various military operations.

View attachment 45528

Naval forces: A strong naval fleet that includes approximately 316 naval vessels, including submarines, patrol ships, frigates, corvettes, and mine ships, which enables Egypt to protect its coasts and maritime interests.

View attachment 45529

Armor: A huge arsenal of armor includes more than 4,500 tanks, 11,000 armored vehicles, 1,165 self-propelled artillery, more than 2,200 field artillery, and 1,235 missile launchers, giving the Egyptian army a tremendous ability to confront any land threat.

View attachment 45530

Huge budget reflecting strong commitment:

More than $10 billion is allocated annually to develop and modernize the capabilities of the Egyptian army, which reflects the political leadership’s commitment to Egypt’s security and stability, and its keenness to have an army capable of protecting the country from any aggression.

Egypt’s position regionally and globally:

This classification is an international testimony to the strength and capabilities of the Egyptian army, and enhances Egypt’s position as an important regional and global player, capable of contributing to maintaining international security and stability.

Global Fire Power is a joke hahahaha. They are basing their data according to quantity and the ratio quality/quantity. How tf the DRPK Navy is the third best Navy in the world etc... hahahhaha. We can't cite GFP as a source.

 

[GoMig-21]

Global Fire Power is a joke hahahaha.

Respectfully, I don't agree. They state immediately what they're basing their criterion on which is mostly quantity + quality of that quantity which frankly is an excellent method to judge collectively, since a military is made up of several different aspects/mediums. So it's up to the "viewer" to judge for himself if he wishes to accept that or not and frankly I think it's probably the best way to judge a military.

And take the top 3, no one has any issue with those, right? Even 4th with India I think, not many will argue against that. The rest might move one or two spots up or down but that's about it. For the most part it's a perfect way to judge militaries. Problem is most people don't like their spots loool.

How tf the DRPK Navy is the third best Navy in the world etc... hahahhaha.

Because they have the largest fleet of submarines and submarines are the number 1 deadly factor for a navy. That's why. Makes perfect sense. You see, people have a preconceived misconception about them because of the poverty stigma and all the other criticism. Reality is, their military is very powerful whith large numbers, especially manpower.

We can't cite GFP as a source.

What else would you use? Not many other available sources out there (actually hardly any except Newsweek or something) and if you compare others to GFP, the results are almost the same with the exception of only a few countries that would be placed substantially differently.

 

[Corax]

Respectfully, I don't agree. They state immediately what they're basing their criterion on which is mostly quantity + quality of that quantity which frankly is an excellent method to judge collectively, since a military is made up of several different aspects/mediums. So it's up to the "viewer" to judge for himself if he wishes to accept that or not and frankly I think it's probably the best way to judge a military.

And take the top 3, no one has any issue with those, right? Even 4th with India I think, not many will argue against that. The rest might move one or two spots up or down but that's about it. For the most part it's a perfect way to judge militaries. Problem is most people don't like their spots loool.



Because they have the largest fleet of submarines and submarines are the number 1 deadly factor for a navy. That's why. Makes perfect sense. You see, people have a preconceived misconception about them because of the poverty stigma and all the other criticism. Reality is, their military is very powerful whith large numbers, especially manpower.



What else would you use? Not many other available sources out there (actually hardly any except Newsweek or something) and if you compare others to GFP, the results are almost the same with the exception of only a few countries that would be placed substantially differently.

Are serious man?! Have you seen the submarines they operate?! mostly WWII vintage tech. Dude, I thought you had some knowledgeable things to say, but I can't take you seriously if this is your view. No wonder you continuously sing the praise of things like the Mig-21 etc lol

 

[GoMig-21]

I wasn't referring to the shooting down of the Mig-21, but that's my fault for not making it clear.

Ah, my bad. I saw "February 2019" figured immediately that was what you were referring to. Plus that seems to be the one event that's always brought up by Pakistani members as a point to support the concept of BVR effectiveness which led me to automatically assume that's what you were getting at.

I suggest you take a closer look at Operation Swift Retort, more specifically the top cover used in the operation.

I am quite familiar with that operation, actually, and know exactly what you're referring to.

The Vipers and AMRAAMs kept the Su-30MKIs, Mirage 2ks, and Mig-29s at bay, without them getting a single AAM off in response. Yes, there was a lot of stand off jamming deployed, with the Mirage 2ks leaving the fray due to "radar issues" according to the indians, but nonetheless the BVR reach of the AMRAAMs did their job, with the Su-30MKIs having to "dodge AMRAAMs". The PAF even claim to have hit an MKI, but that's still open to conjecture.

How many AMRAAMs did the PAF fire that caused the Indian Air Force to be pre-occupied only with dodging the missiles? IIRC, PAF was sold 500 AIM-120C-5's at a rather substantial price per missile back when the F-16 MLUs were approved by the US. Those are super precious items I highly doubt they were being lobbed at the rate you're suggesting, my good friend.

As a matter of fact, at such a short distance, I wouldn't be surprised if the PAF was actually firing AIM-9s at a MUCH higher rate because of that factor. That would prove my point even more so. If the alleged distance was 7 kms, why the hell would the PAF be lobbying a slew of expensive AMRAAMs?

Besides, that's not how it works anyway. A pilot doesn't get to fire a missile like that just because he feels like it. There are critical procedures that factor into the equation that have to be met prior to one of the two AIM-120s on an F-16 is fired. PAF F-16 AN/APG-68 radar has to search, give lock-on/authorization (that authorization is critical because it's designed to increase the Pakistan Azaad Kashmir and effective percentages, so missiles aren't simply wasted. Then it allows the firing. So "dodging" AMRAAMs makes it sound like they were being launched at a high rate which I highly doubt based on everything I listed. And like I said, if that was the case anyway, at that distance they were more likely AIM-9s than AIM-120s which supports my point even more. The battle was cleverly lured to closer distances.

Besides, could the IAF have done anything differently? Or was it the fact that the AMRAAM in the PAF was only, sole, definitive reason the edge went to the PAF? Absolutely the Indians could've done several things differently to mitigate the effectiveness of the PAF's medium-range missiles in that huge mallay. That's what I'm trying to tell you.

I honestly think we're on the same page except you put more stock into 1 factor, the AMRAAM whereas I put more value into the grand scheme of an operation because there are so many more determining factors, the reason why PAF came on top in that operation.

Like I said, you can claim all you want about anti-BVR, jamming, whatnot, but in actual operational matters, it plays a decisive role. Look, I get it, of course you're going to play down the BVR advantage of the IAF, why wouldn't you, and if the EAF had AMRAAMs, you'd be singing their praise.

Oh come on, I am about as objective a member here as you'll ever get. Didn't I say having a more-effective BVR missile is an edge & and advantage? I never downplayed it, but I didn't put full stock into it either. I took the bigger picture. Don't forget it's not like the EAF's F-16s don't have any BVR missiles, either. But while we're at it, let's completely discount the AIM-7 Sparrow and give all the power to the AIM-120. There's a disparity between the two of course, but it's not as determining as you -- and many others here -- are making it out to be.

I keep reiterating that it's not only one factor that determines such a huge swing in power, but rather the collective of factors which is what modern-day warfare is all about.

But the fact of the matter is, the IAF will always have a qualitative edge over its Arab neighbours due to the US.

Did I ever say otherwise?

Case in point, the IAF have a burgeoning fleet of F35s, while the EAF is just now getting BVR!!

Just now getting BVR?

Next you'll be telling me how the F35 is trash and stealth doesn't matter because there's countermeasures against it.

Now you're projecting and putting words in my mouth. I thought you knew me better than that, maaaaaan.

 

[GoMig-21]

Are serious man?! Have you seen the submarines they operate?! mostly WWII vintage tech. Dude, I thought you had some knowledgeable things to say, but I can't take you seriously if this is your view. No wonder you continuously sing the praise of things like the Mig-21 etc lol

Oh gosh yeah, love the MiG-21. If I had to chose my way to go out in style, I would sling my AK-47 onto my shoulder, pack my Glock 45 in its holster and jump into my MiG-21 F-13 and take it to freedom, baby.

Put it this way, remember the battle of Stalingrad? What won it for the Russian, or what was the primary reason Germans surrendered to the Russians? The Russians kept pumping out simple, T-34s and kept throwing hoards & hoards of humanity at the Germans. Quantity, courage & determination is what won the day for the Russians and GFP cannot judge the latter two, only the first.

Take another hypothetical (that's all we have to use) and you have a USS Ohio-Class pulling into the Indian Ocean at a creepy, stealthy speed and suddenly it's confronted by 2 NK Romeo submarines. Ohio fires a 2 torpedo salvo while Romeos fire 2 each also for a total of 2+4. One of the smaller & nimbler Romeo gets away while the other gets hit. At the same time, the Ohio-Class also gets hit. Now the US lost a $3.5 billion submarine and 156 sailors with all its nukes while NK loses 1 $10-million submarine and 38 sailors. Who has the victory there?

That's what it's all about.

 

[Corax]

Ah, my bad. I saw "February 2019" figured immediately that was what you were referring to. Plus that seems to be the one event that's always brought up by Pakistani members as a point to support the concept of BVR effectiveness which led me to automatically assume that's what you were getting at.



I am quite familiar with that operation, actually, and know exactly what you're referring to.



How many AMRAAMs did the PAF fire that caused the Indian Air Force to be pre-occupied only with dodging the missiles? IIRC, PAF was sold 500 AIM-120C-5's at a rather substantial price per missile back when the F-16 MLUs were approved by the US. Those are super precious items I highly doubt they were being lobbed at the rate you're suggesting, my good friend.

As a matter of fact, at such a short distance, I wouldn't be surprised if the PAF was actually firing AIM-9s at a MUCH higher rate because of that factor. That would prove my point even more so. If the alleged distance was 7 kms, why the hell would the PAF be lobbying a slew of expensive AMRAAMs?

Besides, that's not how it works anyway. A pilot doesn't get to fire a missile like that just because he feels like it. There are critical procedures that factor into the equation that have to be met prior to one of the two AIM-120s on an F-16 is fired. PAF F-16 AN/APG-68 radar has to search, give lock-on/authorization (that authorization is critical because it's designed to increase the Pakistan Azaad Kashmir and effective percentages, so missiles aren't simply wasted. Then it allows the firing. So "dodging" AMRAAMs makes it sound like they were being launched at a high rate which I highly doubt based on everything I listed. And like I said, if that was the case anyway, at that distance they were more likely AIM-9s than AIM-120s which supports my point even more. The battle was cleverly lured to closer distances.

Besides, could the IAF have done anything differently? Or was it the fact that the AMRAAM in the PAF was only, sole, definitive reason the edge went to the PAF? Absolutely the Indians could've done several things differently to mitigate the effectiveness of the PAF's medium-range missiles in that huge mallay. That's what I'm trying to tell you.

I honestly think we're on the same page except you put more stock into 1 factor, the AMRAAM whereas I put more value into the grand scheme of an operation because there are so many more determining factors, the reason why PAF came on top in that operation.



Oh come on, I am about as objective a member here as you'll ever get. Didn't I say having a more-effective BVR missile is an edge & and advantage? I never downplayed it, but I didn't put full stock into it either. I took the bigger picture. Don't forget it's not like the EAF's F-16s don't have any BVR missiles, either. But while we're at it, let's completely discount the AIM-7 Sparrow and give all the power to the AIM-120. There's a disparity between the two of course, but it's not as determining as you -- and many others here -- are making it out to be.

I keep reiterating that it's not only one factor that determines such a huge swing in power, but rather the collective of factors which is what modern-day warfare is all about.



Did I ever say otherwise?



Just now getting BVR?



Now you're projecting and putting words in my mouth. I thought you knew me better than that, maaaaaan.

Dude, the whole "Dodging AMRAAMs" phrase was coined by the IAF, not the PAF. The IAF even made a patch to wear in honour whether the PAF fired 1 or 50 AMRAAMs is irrelevant, the point is that the AMRAAMs and BVR per se did the job of keeping the IAF at arms length. Seriously man, what are you on about? You keep rambling on about incoherent stuff. I suggest you read the accounts of Operation Swift Retort in more detail. The AMRAAMs were fired at near max engagement envelope to keep the IAF at long distance, that was the whole point! The Mig-21 that was shot down was vectored in to pursue the egressing air to ground component at lower altitudes and was promptly shot down when identified. I'm talking about the top cover component that was charged with keeping the IAF at long distance away from the ground strike package.

Look, if you want to live in your own world where AMRAAMs and BVR are useless, and all you need are Mig-21s, T34s, hundreds of antiquated diesel-electric subs and wave upon wave of human cannon fodder like the battle of Stalingrad, then fine, happy for you and the Egyptian armed forces and good luck to you

 

[GoMig-21]

Dude, the whole "Dodging AMRAAMs" phrase was coined by the IAF, not the PAF. The IAF even made a patch to wear in honour whether the PAF fired 1 or 50 AMRAAMs is irrelevant, the point is that the AMRAAMs and BVR per se did the job of keeping the IAF at arms length. Seriously man, what are you on about? You keep rambling on about incoherent stuff. I suggest you read the accounts of Operation Swift Retort in more detail. The AMRAAMs were fired at near max engagement envelope to keep the IAF at long distance, that was the whole point! The Mig-21 that was shot down was vectored in to pursue the egressing air to ground component at lower altitudes and was promptly shot down when identified. I'm talking about the top cover component that was charged with keeping the IAF at long distance away from the ground strike package.

Look, if you want to live in your own world where AMRAAMs and BVR are useless, and all you need are Mig-21s, T34s, hundreds of antiquated diesel-electric subs and wave upon wave of human cannon fodder like the battle of Stalingrad, then fine, happy for you and the Egyptian armed forces and good luck to you

That entire spiel filled with feeble attempts at ridiculing is just showing your frustration because I'm not fully agreeing with you. It's too bad, I honestly thought we had a good discussion going.

I tackled every single point you made with a valid counter that and you're doing is replying with attempts at humiliating my arguments instead of countering them. If you don't agree with them, that's fine. I'm certainly not going to lose any sleep over it.

And if those are the only things you drew out of all my replies, then all the power to you as well. Let's move on.

 

[The SC]

So let me get this right, the Egyptians risked sanctions from the US and their Viper fleet just for a Chinese standoff jammer? Okkaaaaay what platform did they intend to integrate it with? Is it operational? If so, on what platform?

That is an adapter of any western or eastern BVR or short range missiles.. so the risk was worth it.. most people don't know what cards Egypt has in its hands..

Do you know that it means Egypt can put any BVR on its 220 F-16s from any origin..mostly Russian and Chinese BVRs..

 

[blueboy7862]

Can Some one tell me that Egyptian EFT will have anti-ship missiles?
@GoMig-21

 

[GoMig-21]

Can Some one tell me that Egyptian EFT will have anti-ship missiles?
@GoMig-21

Of course, bro! Wait...we're getting the Typhoon?

lol, I don't think Egypt is getting the Typhoon, at least not anytime soon. I know I'm dreaming of getting it, not sure about the rest of the fellas besides SC. But with the EAF's beyond imaginable current & future commitment to Dassault and the Rafale, I don't see it happening anytime soon.

Are you wondering if Egypt would get the SPEAR 3?

 

[The SC]

Egypt makes the Silkworm anti-ship missiles for a long time now..but it needs modern naval and air cruise missiles made locally with a local manufacturing license, with a range of 500-800 km..

The artillery and ballistic missile's inventory is huge..

The drone industry is booming and advancing well..

The ability to strike with artillery, missiles, and drones is the thing that scares
Israel the most, more than Egypt’s possession of 100 Sukhoi 35s or 100 Rafale and 100 MiG-29s.. since Israel can't do much about it and it will be depleted of its defenses quickly..but there comes the US to the rescue along with Most of NATO..