Egyptian Armed Forces

[Ghostkiller]

if there is local production in Egypt that would be fine for both sides

DSA 2022: Turkish Aerospace Industries offers Malaysia joint production role

Turkish Aerospace Industries (TAI) is offering Malaysia joint production on several front-line military aircraft, the company said at the Defence Services Asia (DSA)...

www.janes.com

Egypt is bigger than Malaysia in terms of Market etc... If Turkey can offer joint production then I think Turkey will do the same thing

 

[The SC]

Every one wants freedom to say what ever they want

One's freedom stops at when other's freedom starts..

 

[GoMig-21]

This really pisses me off, fellas.

Bad enough there's this!

And this!

Even these are almost as old as our newest F-16 Block 52!

I know it's terrible to be envious, let alone jealous but dang can't help it. Every one of those models is a beauty especially the Typhoon. And Qatar happens to be the only AF out there that deploys both Eurocanards.

This is disgusting look at this!

Doesn't that make you guys angry? Confused? Sad? Emotional, anything? You wanna yell at someone or bash something?

This is the proper loadout. The recessed weapons stations apparently both types of ABVRAAMs.

 

[Ghostkiller]

This really pisses me off, fellas.

View attachment 44899

Bad enough there's this!

View attachment 44901

And this!

View attachment 44898

Even these are almost as old as our newest F-16 Block 52!

View attachment 44902

I know it's terrible to be envious, let alone jealous but dang can't help it. Every one of those models is a beauty especially the Typhoon. And Qatar happens to be the only AF out there that deploys both Eurocanards.

This is disgusting look at this!

View attachment 44903

Doesn't that make you guys angry? Confused? Sad? Emotional, anything? You wanna yell at someone or bash something?

This is the proper loadout. The recessed weapons stations apparently both types of ABVRAAMs.

View attachment 44904

Arguably , they are the best Air Force in terms of aircrafts and equipments with Israeli Air Force. But man, the cost of each aircrafts per hour hahahaha

 

[GoMig-21]

if there is local production in Egypt that would be fine for both sides

What's the latest on the TuAF's interest in the Eurofighter? Is it going to happen and if so, is the number still at 40 aircraft?

That's going to piss me off even more.

 

[xbat]

There is no news about EF on media.

IMO there wouldnt be EF even new f16s are questionable. KAAN is going good. why we need outdated jets which we would have them at the same time with new KAANs.

 

[GoMig-21]

There is no news about EF on media.

IMO there wouldnt be EF even new f16s are questionable. KAAN is going good. why we need outdated jets which we would have them at the same time with new KAANs.

"Outdated jets"? Upgrade the F-16s to Vipers and replace the F-4s with 40 Eurofighter Typhoons I would think would be far from having outdated jets, bro. Especially when it's going to take KAAN at least 8-10 maybe 12 years before it becomes operational, and that's if all things go smoothly. And in decent numbers.

I would also think Türkiye would want to have some kind of insurance policy, too, vis a vis the air force so that there is a strong fleet that can be there in case there are any issues with the development of KAAN, as well as the growing pains it'll go through by the time it becomes a completely effective fighter.

 

[MMM-E]

There is no news about EF on media.

IMO there wouldnt be EF even new f16s are questionable. KAAN is going good. why we need outdated jets which we would have them at the same time with new KAANs.

TURAF can get 40 Eurofighter T4 and 40 F-16V Block70 until 2030

80 new Fighter Jets armed with METEOR and AIM-120C8 air to air Missiles can protect balance of power in the region

Nobody can match with this power in the region which is in the hands of the Turkish Pilots

We can not produce 80 KAAN until 2030
maybe 30 KAAN until 2030 with American Engine

in 2030 even stealth KIZILELMA will be game changer with indigenous TF-10.000 turbofan engine to hit F-16V , F-15 , RAFALE , MIG-29M2 , SU-35 in BVR combat

Many people ignore what a magnificent war machine the KIZILELMA is coming

Especially when it's going to take KAAN at least 8-10 maybe 12 years before it becomes operational, and that's if all things go smoothly. And in decent numbers.

KAAN will have initial operational capability in 2028-2030 period
20 KAAN will be delivered to the Turkish Air Force in 2028
We are waiting for indigenous TF-35.000 turbofan engine for KAAN's 5th gen capability in 2032

 

[GoMig-21]

KAAN will have initial operational capability in 2028-2030 period
20 KAAN will be delivered to the Turkish Air Force in 2028
We are waiting for indigenous TF-35.000 turbofan engine for KAAN's 5th gen capability in 2032

Well, if it started around 2018 or so, that'll be just about 10-12 years like I said. Still seems ambitious for not only a stealth fighter, domestic engine notwithstanding. But that's even more of a reason to buy the 40 Eurofighter Typhoons considering it's Kale & Rolls-Royce who are assisting in the design and building of the eventual engine, and they're basically the same ones who produced the EJ200 in the Typhoon. There would be good commonality there.

Plus it's always good to have additional aircraft that might even be cheaper to operate than a full stealth platform.

 

[The SC]

See how Egypt protects its nuclear station from Israel and the completion of the installation of the first level of the nuclear station

 

[Corax]

What's the status of Egyptian Vipers? I've seen them being referred to as "the most ineffective fleet of F-16s" in the world or rather "the civilian" version of the Viper. Seems like the US has screwed the Egyptians by flooding them with useless hardware. I can't believe countries like Turkey and the Arab states still come back to the US for more punishment. It's 2024 and these types of countries still haven't learnt that the most effective US foreign policy is making countries addicted to their "foreign aid", kinda like a drug dealer supplying heroin. The pakistanis are no different either, given half the chance they'd run back to Amreeeka, but at least they're trying to wean themselves off.

 

[Ghostkiller]

What's the status of Egyptian Vipers? I've seen them being referred to as "the most ineffective fleet of F-16s" in the world or rather "the civilian" version of the Viper. Seems like the US has screwed the Egyptians by flooding them with useless hardware. I can't believe countries like Turkey and the Arab states still come back to the US for more punishment. It's 2024 and these types of countries still haven't learnt that the most effective US foreign policy is making countries addicted to their "foreign aid", kinda like a drug dealer supplying heroin. The pakistanis are no different either, given half the chance they'd run back to Amreeeka, but at least they're trying to wean themselves off.

Technically yes, we don't have AIM-120 BVR missiles at all (we are using the AIM-7 Sparrow for the BVR role), cruises missiles. That's why we decided to go with French and Russian aircrafts.

 

[Corax]

Technically yes, we don't have AIM-120 BVR missiles at all (we are using the AIM-7 Sparrow for the BVR role), cruises missiles. That's why we decided to go with French and Russian aircrafts.

It's taken you this long to figure out? The Americans have been openly stating for decades that they will ensure the military superiority of the Israelis against the Arabs, and yet the Arab states still take the bait.

 

[GoMig-21]

@Corax , I'm going to give it a shot adding to @Ghostkiller 's answer to your question(s) but just a heads up, there is way too much information about the topic you've questioned that I cannot articulate the appropriate answer in just 2 or 3 sentences. So just FYI, this will be a long post if you or others still wish to read it.

It's taken you this long to figure out?

Well, no. We knew this was the case as soon as the AMRAAM was invented and put into operation with the USAF & USN back in 1991 after Operation Desert Storm and the end of the Gulf War.

But as you well know, Egypt had to deal with A LOT of adversity that superseded its need for advanced BVR missiles for its F-16s. Those included things like the availability of other options (at the time, not now) as well as the signing of the CISMOA treaty and just a small little thing that got in the way like a "revolution" lol. There was a lot that were considered as obstacles or matters of greater importance.

In many ways, Egypt was told the CISMOA treaty had to be signed before the US would even consider supplying the AIM-120, in particular the section of non-transferable technology to 3rd party members which was a major issue the US had and still has with Egypt since we have a very close relationship with Russia and even China. As a matter of fact, China was one of the major reasons for that mistrust blowing up in our faces because for some reason, we gave a Chinese delegation a rather intimate "tour" of one of our F-16s and got caught like a bunch of idiots. Why we did that? I have no idea but it happened and when Killary Klinton found out about it, she flipped out to congress and that made matters even worse.

The Americans have been openly stating for decades that they will ensure the military superiority of the Israelis against the Arabs, and yet the Arab states still take the bait.

The concept of advanced medium range air to air & BVR missiles was to give an edge to the aerial battle using the concept of first see first kill, determined by greater distances. Based on that philosophy, it's only an edge or advantage but not a sure thing by any means. It's amazing to me how some people (not you, just many out there and here) don't understand that and think that it's almost a guaranteed win. It's not, not even close especially against a knowledgeable, well-trained and well-experienced opponent.

There are many variables in that concept and the other aspect of that misconception is that this single item right here...

...does not determine whether a fighter jet is "useless" or not.

That's the biggest hoax perpetrated on the "unknowledgeable" of combat aircraft aviation and tactics along with the unfamiliarity of network-centric warfare and many other variables that determine a loss or a win. People only use that as an excuse to undermine others that might not have access to that specific technology. But for those who are quite familiar with combat aviation and many of the involved scenarios and tactics realize that while it's a great plus to have, it's not the end-all, be-all by any stretch of the imagination.

An acquaintance -- not a friend; I don't consider our relationship that of a 'friendship' (we're not that close) -- but an acquaintance whom I've had many discussions with about the concept of BVR in general as a war tactic passed some fascinatingly interesting information about that advantage and how it's only that, and advantage. He's a retired USAF F-15 pilot who flew the C model (which as we all know is strictly an Air-to-Air/Interceptor platform) and flew it as a USAF/NATO participant out of West Germany from the late 1980's through most of the 1990's against MiG-21s & MiG-29s of Soviet bloc countries in Europe, so was quite familiar with A2A concepts and missiles. At the time, the US had the Pheonix missile, and he and his other pilot comrades knew the US was developing an advanced, medium range A2A missile to essentially replace the Pheonix since it was just too bulky and heavy and the only platform that could carry & fire it was the F-14 Tomcat. They wanted to have an advanced BVR missile that was compatible to ALL USAF AND USN/Marine Corps air assets, not just 1 naval aircraft.

So he knew it was coming and he was telling us that they were being prepped about the new missile and how it was going to change their already established mission-planning & tactical training scenarios to make the most usage out of this new missile. Along with many of those tactical training scenarios was a slew of methods to circumvent the effectiveness of the missile. In other words, they were also trained on ways the enemy can counter or circumvent it by understanding its shortcomings (such as the timing of its initial propellant burnout stage) and how that could be used as an advantage to the enemy as well as other OPSEC information. But also, other ways to circumvent of even defeat it either by EW or certain tactics such as altitude differentials and what he called "vector options" (which meant what would be the best heading to take knowing you've been locked on & targeted, and a missile is headed your way) and several other really great things he talked about. He obviously stopped short of revealing any actual OPSEC information of course. But some of that stuff was fascinating and particularly the evasive tactics. He reiterated that a pilot would need EXTENSIVE knowledge of the specific weapon itself, its kill zone & its probability of kill and be able to apply those during a highly stressful situation. That concept really applies to almost all weapons if you think about it. A perfect example is the Trophy system vs RPGs. We've seen the perfect example with Hamas' methods of understanding the weapon system, adjusting and learning its shortcomings and applying ways to defeat it.

Bottom line, there are ways to circumvent and evade BVR missiles and actually use the distance to your advantage with several tactics and most of all, having the knowledge and training which is #1. Without that yes, they would be sitting ducks.

The EXACT reason why the Su-35S is struggling in the Ukraine. Russian pilots don't get nearly the proper amount of training hours as US or even European fighter pilots and don't have enough specific training in particular defensive tactics such as SEAD missions. Most of their Su-35 losses have been to SAMs (actually all of the kills) and that's exactly the same concept my "friend" was talking about. Russians also made the mistake of not using dedicated SEAD aircraft (Su-34) for those particular missions and when they did, that specific training (or lack-thereof) showed and they've lost many of those jets when they could've avoided that.

That's another huge reason why calling the EAF F-16s or any other platform that doesn't have AMRAAMs as useless is ridiculous.

EAF F-16s are very capable of performing a myriad of missions from recon to interception to patrolling to interdiction to SEAD missions to ground attack to air-air and everything in-between. How is that even close to anything remotely called "useless"? It's crazy silly/foolish.

Despite all that, even today we're still dealing with the real reason the US doesn't want to supply Egypt with AMRAAMs and that's the BS ZIONIST QME. It's so bad that it's reached other suppliers including the French, German, British and others who are persuasively sympathetic to the zionist. And when one actually puts it in perspective, how the AIM-120 has been supplied to almost everyone else from Turkey, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Bahrain, Oman, Morocco, EVEN JORDAN but not Egypt, what does that tell you and everyone else about how frightened the zionist are of Egypt and its military as a whole? Think about that for a minute. We've had a major peace treaty with those criminals for 45 years! And Egypt has abided by it much more than the zionist have and they're still afraid of us. Even the US & France and all of Europe think that in the hands of the EAF, that would be a detrimental factor to the zionist but it's ok for all those other countries to obtain it even when some of them don't even have diplomatic relations with the entity, let alone recognize it! Meaning they're actually in a greater state of belligerence to the zionist than Egypt. That tells a lot about the situation as it stands.

 

[Corax]

@Corax , I'm going to give it a shot adding to @Ghostkiller 's answer to your question(s) but just a heads up, there is way too much information about the topic you've questioned that I cannot articulate the appropriate answer in just 2 or 3 sentences. So just FYI, this will be a long post if you or others still wish to read it.


Well, no. We knew this was the case as soon as the AMRAAM was invented and put into operation with the USAF & USN back in 1991 after Operation Desert Storm and the end of the Gulf War.

But as you well know, Egypt had to deal with A LOT of adversity that superseded its need for advanced BVR missiles for its F-16s. Those included things like the availability of other options (at the time, not now) as well as the signing of the CISMOA treaty and just a small little thing that got in the way like a "revolution" lol. There was a lot that were considered as obstacles or matters of greater importance.

In many ways, Egypt was told the CISMOA treaty had to be signed before the US would even consider supplying the AIM-120, in particular the section of non-transferable technology to 3rd party members which was a major issue the US had and still has with Egypt since we have a very close relationship with Russia and even China. As a matter of fact, China was one of the major reasons for that mistrust blowing up in our faces because for some reason, we gave a Chinese delegation a rather intimate "tour" of one of our F-16s and got caught like a bunch of idiots. Why we did that? I have no idea but it happened and when Killary Klinton found out about it, she flipped out to congress and that made matters even worse.



The concept of advanced medium range air to air & BVR missiles was to give an edge to the aerial battle using the concept of first see first kill, determined by greater distances. Based on that philosophy, it's only an edge or advantage but not a sure thing by any means. It's amazing to me how some people (not you, just many out there and here) don't understand that and think that it's almost a guaranteed win. It's not, not even close especially against a knowledgeable, well-trained and well-experienced opponent.

There are many variables in that concept and the other aspect of that misconception is that this single item right here...

View attachment 45405

...does not determine whether a fighter jet is "useless" or not.

That's the biggest hoax perpetrated on the "unknowledgeable" of combat aircraft aviation and tactics along with the unfamiliarity of network-centric warfare and many other variables that determine a loss or a win. People only use that as an excuse to undermine others that might not have access to that specific technology. But for those who are quite familiar with combat aviation and many of the involved scenarios and tactics realize that while it's a great plus to have, it's not the end-all, be-all by any stretch of the imagination.

An acquaintance -- not a friend; I don't consider our relationship that of a 'friendship' (we're not that close) -- but an acquaintance whom I've had many discussions with about the concept of BVR in general as a war tactic passed some fascinatingly interesting information about that advantage and how it's only that, and advantage. He's a retired USAF F-15 pilot who flew the C model (which as we all know is strictly an Air-to-Air/Interceptor platform) and flew it as a USAF/NATO participant out of West Germany from the late 1980's through most of the 1990's against MiG-21s & MiG-29s of Soviet bloc countries in Europe, so was quite familiar with A2A concepts and missiles. At the time, the US had the Pheonix missile, and he and his other pilot comrades knew the US was developing an advanced, medium range A2A missile to essentially replace the Pheonix since it was just too bulky and heavy and the only platform that could carry & fire it was the F-14 Tomcat. They wanted to have an advanced BVR missile that was compatible to ALL USAF AND USN/Marine Corps air assets, not just 1 naval aircraft.

So he knew it was coming and he was telling us that they were being prepped about the new missile and how it was going to change their already established mission-planning & tactical training scenarios to make the most usage out of this new missile. Along with many of those tactical training scenarios was a slew of methods to circumvent the effectiveness of the missile. In other words, they were also trained on ways the enemy can counter or circumvent it by understanding its shortcomings (such as the timing of its initial propellant burnout stage) and how that could be used as an advantage to the enemy as well as other OPSEC information. But also, other ways to circumvent of even defeat it either by EW or certain tactics such as altitude differentials and what he called "vector options" (which meant what would be the best heading to take knowing you've been locked on & targeted, and a missile is headed your way) and several other really great things he talked about. He obviously stopped short of revealing any actual OPSEC information of course. But some of that stuff was fascinating and particularly the evasive tactics. He reiterated that a pilot would need EXTENSIVE knowledge of the specific weapon itself, its kill zone & its probability of kill and be able to apply those during a highly stressful situation. That concept really applies to almost all weapons if you think about it. A perfect example is the Trophy system vs RPGs. We've seen the perfect example with Hamas' methods of understanding the weapon system, adjusting and learning its shortcomings and applying ways to defeat it.

Bottom line, there are ways to circumvent and evade BVR missiles and actually use the distance to your advantage with several tactics and most of all, having the knowledge and training which is #1. Without that yes, they would be sitting ducks.

The EXACT reason why the Su-35S is struggling in the Ukraine. Russian pilots don't get nearly the proper amount of training hours as US or even European fighter pilots and don't have enough specific training in particular defensive tactics such as SEAD missions. Most of their Su-35 losses have been to SAMs (actually all of the kills) and that's exactly the same concept my "friend" was talking about. Russians also made the mistake of not using dedicated SEAD aircraft (Su-34) for those particular missions and when they did, that specific training (or lack-thereof) showed and they've lost many of those jets when they could've avoided that.

That's another huge reason why calling the EAF F-16s or any other platform that doesn't have AMRAAMs as useless is ridiculous.

EAF F-16s are very capable of performing a myriad of missions from recon to interception to patrolling to interdiction to SEAD missions to ground attack to air-air and everything in-between. How is that even close to anything remotely called "useless"? It's crazy silly/foolish.

Despite all that, even today we're still dealing with the real reason the US doesn't want to supply Egypt with AMRAAMs and that's the BS ZIONIST QME. It's so bad that it's reached other suppliers including the French, German, British and others who are persuasively sympathetic to the zionist. And when one actually puts it in perspective, how the AIM-120 has been supplied to almost everyone else from Turkey, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Bahrain, Oman, Morocco, EVEN JORDAN but not Egypt, what does that tell you and everyone else about how frightened the zionist are of Egypt and its military as a whole? Think about that for a minute. We've had a major peace treaty with those criminals for 45 years! And Egypt has abided by it much more than the zionist have and they're still afraid of us. Even the US & France and all of Europe think that in the hands of the EAF, that would be a detrimental factor to the zionist but it's ok for all those other countries to obtain it even when some of them don't even have diplomatic relations with the entity, let alone recognize it! Meaning they're actually in a greater state of belligerence to the zionist than Egypt. That tells a lot about the situation as it stands.

I get all of what you're saying, but just on the point of BVR I have to disagree. You can train your nuts off with all the anti-BVR tactics you want, but the fact is first look-first shoot is overwhelmingly determinant when it comes to air dominance, more so now than ever. The PAF for at least two decades suffered immensely in this regard vs the IAF, and paid heavily for it. That balance of equation has now shifted dramatically, as proven by the PAF on Feb 2019 against the IAF, using AMRAAMs against Su-30MKIs, Mirages and Mig-29s, who didn't manage to get even a single AAM missile off against the PAF. Yes, yes, I know there were many other factors involved etc. I'm not going to go into the rest of the political issues etc, but the reason the zionists are afraid of Egypt is >100million nation against less then 10million, simple as that. The sooner you guys learn to wean yourselves off the US the better. Although that's easier said that done given the political interference uncle Sam likes to do. I guess for you guys to develop an independent defence posture is difficult due to Camp David and having the zionists next door, but look at what Turkey and Pakistan are doing, slowly weaning themselves away from the US with nascent indigenous tech. Heck, if a basket case country like Pakistan can do it (albeit with a lot of support from China), then surely Egypt can. There'll be a heavy price to pay, but what price for self-respect?