Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

[Ali_Baba]

It took china 30 years to built a "modern" air force from their first purchase of Russian SU-27's. PAF already had decades of US training and tactics including fighters so Pakistan can buy fighters from non-western nations and won't take them long to integrate and are more than good enough to take on India's air force. PAF does more with less because of their western centric training and tactics.

Problem for Iran is even if they decided to only focus on having a modern-ish air force for past two decades and Russia happily sold them flankers it doesn't guarantee its air force can survive against IAF. You can see how competent the Russian air force is in Ukraine a nation with no air force.

True, but the Iranians are a smart and intelligent people, they can learn and adapt to new things. I have far more faith in the Iranian air force being able to learn to do the right thing than I do in the Indian air force. The human resource quality of the Iranian air force is a lot better. Iran is a very well educated country.

I agree that the Russians are useless both tactically aswell as their equipment, which is why I think Iran is better off looking at the J10CE. Much better platform and the advantage of being able to train with China(who spend lots on training, tactics) and of course the PAF.

 

[tsunset]

Since a lot of our AH-1J got destroyed during the war, Iran also needs attack helicopters, they also destroyed Chinooks

Z-10ME would be a nice purchase

It's time for Iran to retire the relics of the cold war

 

[ShapurII]

For the short term Iran can hire retired PAF very experienced pilots ground crew, technicians etc to get your IAF off the ground. While you train your own people.

I don't know. It's hard to count on foreigners to operate your air force for you.
A foreigner feels no patriotism or moral obligation to defend your country when shit hits the fan.
Do you think a foreign soldier would risk his life to fight for Iran against the Israeli Air Force? When the odds are against him.

 

[SolarWarden]

True, but Iran has a lot of mountains and alot of experiencce of working with those mountains, and it took the USA 50% of its big bombs to make a dent on one location. Iran has ceased all co-operation with the IAEA, so trying to guess what Iran will do next is going to be a challenge. They could easily start working on 20 new underground sites, out of 2 of them will be real. How do you work that out given the IAEA cannot provide intelligence information to the USA and friends? It will take time, yes, eventually they will work it out but losing boots on the ground will be a big problem going forward.

US (open sources) said to have had 50 GBU-57's it won't take long to built more.

And no it's not going to be easy to rebuilt it is very expensive to dig a hole inside a mountain which is why Iran didn't dig fake holes. Fake holes is not going to cut it.

The IAEA was not the one that discovered Fordow and what it was meant for it was US intelligence and Mossad. The moment Iran starts building facilities to enrich they will go buh-bye.

 

[samejjangir]

Two gas-turbines have already been exported, confirmed by Russian newspapers. You can ask Russian members on here if you wish. This discussion is also over.

These are not the turbofan engines used in planes but pipeline turbines and are vastly different.

Why did you purchase French Rafales when you could invest in Tejas instead? Why isn't the backbone of your air force Indian? Why didn't you use Tejas in Operation Sindoor?
I mean no offense to India, but India doesn't really have a golden history of winning wars. And your Operation Sindoor was a defeat for you.

India manufactures Su30 completely in house. But India has its own strategic needs to buy foreign jets for various reasons. Naturally, being a new jet, India would have liked to test Rafale's capabilities and fielded it in the frontlines. Tejas & Su30 have too many Indian technology which can be leaked if it falls in enemy territory. This is another concern for not using then in frontlines but only from a distance. India hasn't lost any wars. So, I don't understand your point of not winning any

So, you think Arabs control the Chinese economy more than the US? China's export to Saudi Arabia is about $50 billion dollars. One-tenth of the volume of China's exports to the US. You're downplaying the amount of influence the US has over world economy through the US dollar, financial institutions, banking, UN, etc. If you knew anything about the amount of influence the US has over the world's economy, you would've never made such a ridiculous statement that Arabs have more influence over China than the US.

The numbers don't tell everything. If Arab oil flows stop, other industries will also stop. So, it is the criticality of oil supply rather than the dollar figures. Also, the Arab oil is not really priced at $70 but there are indirect agreements to share some surplus trade wealth to Arabs so that they get more than $70 for oil but doesn't put direct price burden on manufacturers & involves risk sharing. Similarly, USA is likely required to print some dollars and hand it to offshore accounts of Arabs as part of petrodollars. Due to secrecy, none of the details will be given out.

In short, yes, Arabs have greater control on on Chinese economy due to the actual value of oil being $200+ per barrel in terms of its utility. This is also how Saudis & GCC states maintain trillions in PIF after doling out investments, remittance etc to dozens of countries like India, Egypt, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Africa etc despite surplus balance of payments not accounting to that much.

 

[Olympus81]

Sincerely hope Iran Pakistan gas pipeline comes to fruition.

That will help both countries.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Well if china did decide to go ahead with it if they are even discussing it but they need dozens upon dozens of planes of all types air defenses as well even if china is selling at below cost to American weapons it’s going to take 10s of billions of dollars over the next several years

If China is prepared to take payments in oil, then quite doable. China has an opportunity to pull Iran into its orbit and secure its south western borders alot with Iran on side.

China/Iran recently made operational a trainline for delivering oil :

HISTORIC! First Freight Train From China Wheels Into Iran, Flying In The Face Of American Sanctions

In what could only be termed as a geopolitical coup, the first freight train from China rolled into Iran this week. Flying in the face of the US sanctions aimed at crippling Tehran’s oil trade and isolating Beijing, the rail line will not only boost trade between the two countries, but would...

www.eurasiantimes.com

 

[Cash gk]

I don't know. It's hard to count on foreigners to operate your air force for you.
A foreigner feels no patriotism or moral obligation to defend your country when shit hits the fan.
Do you think a foreign soldier would risk his life to fight for Iran against the Israeli Air Force? When the odds are against him.

Pakistanis fighter pilots are always ready to help their brothers. Look in turkey

 

[Cash gk]

Well if china did decide to go ahead with it if they are even discussing it but they need dozens upon dozens of planes of all types air defenses as well even if china is selling at below cost to American weapons it’s going to take 10s of billions of dollars over the next several years

Who is that guy?

 

[mulj]

I don't know. It's hard to count on foreigners to operate your air force for you.
A foreigner feels no patriotism or moral obligation to defend your country when shit hits the fan.
Do you think a foreign soldier would risk his life to fight for Iran against the Israeli Air Force? When the odds are against him.

Against israel airfforce especially you can count that pakistani pilots would rush in if given chance and under suitable inteligence conditions.

 

[German Angst]

Serves the Ummah chummah members right

Ummah only exists in Pakistan

 

[PakFactor]

It took china 30 years to built a "modern" air force from their first purchase of Russian SU-27's. PAF already had decades of US training and tactics including fighters so Pakistan can buy fighters from non-western nations and won't take them long to integrate and are more than good enough to take on India's air force. PAF does more with less because of their western centric training and tactics.

Problem for Iran is even if they decided to only focus on having a modern-ish air force for past two decades and Russia happily sold them flankers it doesn't guarantee its air force can survive against IAF. You can see how competent the Russian air force is in Ukraine a nation with no air force.

I do not believe that, in the long run, J-10CEs or JF-17s will survive with the advent of stealth fighters. Even for the Pakistan Air Force, I think the J-10CE was a stopgap until we acquire a 5th-generation platform. The same will be true for Iran; they should see if China would be willing to offer them the J-35.

More importantly, before anything is done, the Iranians need to clean their foreign policy. I also do not feel that even if the Iranians go for the first two mentioned platforms, they would be willing to export while their relations with India are maintained, and with the infiltration that has taken place.

 

[sutton9999]

How about

Iran gives up enrichment (handover to Russia)
Israel withdrew from Gaza ( unarmed GAZA policed by Arab states)
Iran keeps BM program ( dirty bomb BM farm as last resort deterrence)
West lifts sanctions

 

[PakFactor]

Against israel airfforce especially you can count that pakistani pilots would rush in if given chance and under suitable inteligence conditions.

In agreement, we did it once before, I believe, in the Arab-Israeli 1965 war. Now, it will be even more crucial to see how the Israelis work and deploy their platforms.

 

[nang2]

How about

Iran gives up enrichment (handover to Russia)
Israel withdrew from Gaza ( unarmed GAZA policed by Arab states)
Iran keeps BM program ( dirty bomb BM farm as last resort deterrence)
West lifts sanctions

Not going to happen. Iran will give up enrichment. The sanctions will continue and so will Israeli occupation of Gaza.