PAF Very Own A2A Missiles [WVR, BVR & ALCM Stand off] News, Updates & Discussions

[ghazi52]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[FuturePAF]

GIDS FAAZ-II BVR
"Status : Under Development

View attachment 15088


- Dual Pulse Rocket Motor
- Range 180km
-Max Speed: Mach 3.5
- Seeker Type: Active RF / IIR
-Target Type: Aircraft, UAVs, Helicopters


View attachment 15087
View attachment 15086

Similarities & design based on SD-10 Licensed Production & Denel Dynamics. Marlin BVR missile "

Marlin uses a dual pulse rocket motor for extended range (two fuel chambers and one exhaust nozzle). For long range engagements the first pulse fires and the missile glides towards its target before the second pulse fires at a later point in time.

View attachment 15090

For shorter engagements, both pulses can be fired almost simultaneously. Top speed could be around Mach 4. Flight control is by servo motor controlled fins."

Pakistan is also said to be working with the Turks to develop a BVR missile. I hope Pakistan and Turkey work on a joint version of the GoKhan Ramjet Missile, to at least match the capabilities of the meteor. The psychological effect will important in dealing with the IAF.

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[GatlingGun]

Excellent input. However lets understand one fact Pakistan is technically not in the best of its fiscal position. CAAM-ER deal required alot of push from our side. Europeans are not interested in any off set deal with Pakistan. As far as Ukraine is concerned we sold a huge lot for a very low price to a third party because all the items you export(defence related from SOE) have a rate list devised by concerned ministry in this case small arms ammo rate had not been revised in almost a decade. Revision takes a lot of time which goes through multiple ministries and departments and then is finally revised. Therefore POF ammo is technically the cheapest there was even in a timeframe of high demand and large market requirement and customers willing to even pay a huge premium. But we couldn't cash this opportunity due to the red tape with in our systems. Pakistan would have made almost 5-10% when countries and entities worldwide were making almost 80-100 % on every consignment.

Pakistani ammunition only started appearing after 14 months since war started, and Pakistani estb doesn't need clearance from any ministry , hence I don't think your claim of low profit holds water.

Profit was definitely made by one way or another. Did Pakistani estb increase the selling price or not. That's the topic of debate.

 

[ghazi52]

To view this content we will need your consent to set third party cookies.
For more detailed information, see our cookies page.

Accept third party cookies

 

[ghazi52]

 

[MS Sandhu]

@Quwa @arslank01
Bros will China allow to integrate Turkish origined BVRs with J-10CP and future J-31?
If not, this is clear indication that JF 17 program is likely to stay and we will see (hopefully) new blocks of it.

 

[Quwa]

@Quwa @arslank01
Bros will China allow to integrate Turkish origined BVRs with J-10CP and future J-31?
If not, this is clear indication that JF 17 program is likely to stay and we will see (hopefully) new blocks of it.

It shouldn't be an issue for China except whether we're technically capable of doing it. The more we ask for China's handholding for integrating non-Chinese munitions, the more we'll annoy them into not helping us at all.

 

[Ak01]

@Quwa @arslank01
Bros will China allow to integrate Turkish origined BVRs with J-10CP and future J-31?
If not, this is clear indication that JF 17 program is likely to stay and we will see (hopefully) new blocks of it.

i am happy to bet that the jf-17s are here to stay and there will be a futher block- ive been predicting this for the last few years, i hope im right lol

 

[hussain0216]

i am happy to bet that the jf-17s are here to stay and there will be a futher block- ive been predicting this for the last few years, i hope im right lol

Possibly, I don't think military wants to lose the capabilities and manufacturing know how they have built up

This might also be long term plans for KAAN

But ultimately, it gives both Pakistan and Turkey back up support if conflict breaks out and factories are targeted

 

[Hakikat ve Hikmet]

@Quwa @arslank01
Bros will China allow to integrate Turkish origined BVRs with J-10CP and future J-31?
If not, this is clear indication that JF 17 program is likely to stay and we will see (hopefully) new blocks of it.

A2A missiles are the pinnacle of technology in this field. They have tons of apps at different platforms: Akinji HALE, KIZILELMA/ANKA-3 unmanned jets, SHORAD etc....

 

[Ak01]

what i seriously wonder now is why FC-31 then, the PAF is clearly throwing its weight behind the Turks, yes, i get being risk averse, but the FC-31 is hardly a completed product anyway and from what i can see, seems nothing more than an aircraft for those really low budget forces who cant afford to keep up but also cant afford to fall behind. The FC-31 literally seems like an airframe populated with a mish mash of readily available components. I would be seriously concerned about starting an arms race based around the FC-31, its a product that doesn't seem ready or suited to the needs of the force- radar derived from the KLJ-7A, Engines derived from the RD-33, alot of the kit being off the shelf readily available stuff- sure, it makes sense in the context of commonality and whatnot, but surely commonality with the JF-17 should not be a priority of your top of the line, highest end asset designed to do the bulk of the offensive work?

I get it is late to contribute much of value to the TFX, but there is still so many opportunities in relation to that project- let the Turks do airframe development, we can work out an agreement where we are able to develop munitions, or supporting equipment under their guidance and leadership, ive never been a super huge believer in the TFX, im sure you remember my sceptical article about it @Quwa , but day by day, it gets more and more impressive, even on paper you sit there and think, this thing will genuinely be serious kit, you dont get that with the FC-31.

The engines are a major hurdle yes, but the Turks have such a good opportunity to pitch this as the 'islamic fighter', gather funding from the Gulf and accelerate engine development, allowing them to literally pour money and burn it on those engines, a true ITAR free high end solution could possibly push Turkey into having the second largest sales of FGFA's after the US, while allowing the per unit cost to drop significantly. I am skeptical of the FC-31 induction, for what its worth, i dont actually think it will happen, but i do fear that we are missing on a big opportunity here- @Quwa any idea as to the logic here

 

[Quwa]

what i seriously wonder now is why FC-31 then, the PAF is clearly throwing its weight behind the Turks, yes, i get being risk averse, but the FC-31 is hardly a completed product anyway and from what i can see, seems nothing more than an aircraft for those really low budget forces who cant afford to keep up but also cant afford to fall behind. The FC-31 literally seems like an airframe populated with a mish mash of readily available components. I would be seriously concerned about starting an arms race based around the FC-31, its a product that doesn't seem ready or suited to the needs of the force- radar derived from the KLJ-7A, Engines derived from the RD-33, alot of the kit being off the shelf readily available stuff- sure, it makes sense in the context of commonality and whatnot, but surely commonality with the JF-17 should not be a priority of your top of the line, highest end asset designed to do the bulk of the offensive work?

I get it is late to contribute much of value to the TFX, but there is still so many opportunities in relation to that project- let the Turks do airframe development, we can work out an agreement where we are able to develop munitions, or supporting equipment under their guidance and leadership, ive never been a super huge believer in the TFX, im sure you remember my sceptical article about it @Quwa , but day by day, it gets more and more impressive, even on paper you sit there and think, this thing will genuinely be serious kit, you dont get that with the FC-31.

The engines are a major hurdle yes, but the Turks have such a good opportunity to pitch this as the 'islamic fighter', gather funding from the Gulf and accelerate engine development, allowing them to literally pour money and burn it on those engines, a true ITAR free high end solution could possibly push Turkey into having the second largest sales of FGFA's after the US, while allowing the per unit cost to drop significantly. I am skeptical of the FC-31 induction, for what its worth, i dont actually think it will happen, but i do fear that we are missing on a big opportunity here- @Quwa any idea as to the logic here

If your characterization of J-31 is correct, then the J-31 might be relatively affordable for what it offers. Hence, it could make for a cost-effective mainstay/workhorse, maybe take over from the JF-17 over the long run. So, you get a new-gen MiG-29-type fighter to build your backbone.

OTOH, the PAF could be viewing the KAAN as the complete shift to next-gen, one where you can deploy directed energy weapons, for example (which was an ASR for Project AZM, btw).

 

[Ak01]

If your characterization of J-31 is correct, then the J-31 might be relatively affordable for what it offers. Hence, it could make for a cost-effective mainstay/workhorse, maybe take over from the JF-17 over the long run. So, you get a new-gen MiG-29-type fighter to build your backbone.

i can see it as the LO of the mix, ex- ACM did say he wanted a full FGFA force, but i wonder how sustainable such a solution of a mix and support pipelines is gonna be.

 

[Quwa]

i can see it as the LO of the mix, ex- ACM did say he wanted a full FGFA force, but i wonder how sustainable such a solution of a mix and support pipelines is gonna be.

This could explain the relatively massive investment in SAMs. The PAF traditionally relied on its fighters for air defence, but now, the area-denial role will be split between MR/LR-SAMs and the fighter wings. In addition, you'll have an influx of drones to take on COIN/CT, high-risk strike, and other missions the PAF had assigned to crewed fighters.

So, overall, the relative proportion and real number of crewed fighters in the PAF could drop over the long run, especially if heavier fighters like the J-31 and/or KAAN are sought.

 

[MS Sandhu]

If the PAF wants to get a little wild, it might try buying the entire AAM stack from Turkiye -- i.e., tech transfer for the dual-pulse motor rocket tech, seeker tech, etc -- and continue evolving it here as an R&D partner. That'd be an expensive route, but definitely worth it as the fundamental tech (e.g., rockets) can feed into both AAM and SAM applications. And we have enough need for both across the Tri-Services to generate scale and distribute the overhead for decades.

For this,PAF should have taken NESCOM in confidence to abandone their already slow SAM&BVR project to fully focus on getting tot from Turkey regarding this tech.

Otherwise,It will become another MALE UAV type parallel program where NESCOM somewhat succeeded but PAF's PAC utterly failed.