PAF Very Own A2A Missiles [WVR, BVR & ALCM Stand off] News, Updates & Discussions

[Quwa]

Definitely a better pathway but the middle tier countries had limitations on their tech being beholden in certain cases to components from major powers. Case in point was Brazil and Turkey(with the ATAK fiasco).

Ukraine was an interesting middle choice and there was a deep working relationship but some of their knowledge prior to the conflict was lost to brain drain and corruption.

In a way, despite all the hardship - this conflict has revitalized the Ukrainian R&D sector and brought a lot of smart young blood back.

Absolutely, but they have/had other projects we could work on for our benefit. E.g., the Brazilians have an understanding of aircraft design and development, industrial development, and so on, which (while higher level) could've helped us.

 

[CSAW]

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[Oscar]

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This term “long range vectors” is rather bland in terms of what they’re trying to convey.

Other than the usual sycophantic nonsense - there were some interesting contextual nuances that could be taken at face value or nothing.

 

[farooqbhai]

Bro if he is the same Ark Angel from the last PDF then he is deep “in the know” club. I forgot to archive his posts though

Usually on our side its someone's mouth slipped and a bit of information got out. The full exact info is never revealed.
I got sources on Ukrainian side, obviously what they will tell will be different than what little information we get from our side.

 

[Bilal]

Usually on our side its someone's mouth slipped and a bit of information got out. The full exact info is never revealed.
I got sources on Ukrainian side, obviously what they will tell will be different than what little information we get from our side.

100%, the full information is always fragmented which needs to be put together, correlating and combined from different sources.

 

[Ak01]

Then CNS Adm. Abbasi called P-282 a hypersonic ballistic missile, but I'm not sure if the PN is still using the P-282 designation for the ASBM. Rather, P-282 refers to some type of cruising missile, likely supersonic-cruising.

for what its worth, the storage facility for p282 began construction a while back at PNCM which makes me think that the SMASH program, if truly indigenous, wouldnt have been merged as that all happened very quickly, i sneakily suspect, the P282 were about to get is YJ-21E, painted green and derestricted like zarb, the Chinese must have canisterised it for export. Without the booster, or with a redesigned booster rather, its doable

 

[Bratva]

Then CNS Adm. Abbasi called P-282 a hypersonic ballistic missile, but I'm not sure if the PN is still using the P-282 designation for the ASBM. Rather, P-282 refers to some type of cruising missile, likely supersonic-cruising.

My thoughts on why:

ASFAT's illustrations of the Jinnah-class FFG show it armed with the P-282 in a 2x4 configuration. While the idea of loading ASBMs from ships is neat, I don't think the PN would configure it on all workhorse ships. I think the default solution for frigates, corvettes, and OPVs would be a cruising missile, either subsonic or supersonic.

One other variable. The Damen Batch-II OPVs (i.e., PNS Hunain and PNS Yamama) are shown armed with a 2x2 system similar to the Tughril-class' CM-302. It'd be pretty random to load CM-302 onto the OPVs.

Hence, I think the P-282 is a supersonic-cruising ASCM (i.e., merged with SMASH), while the ASBM now has some other name (maybe Fatah-2?).

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I wish we leveraged things like F-16 training, guided munitions, etc, to get Ukrainian help on turbofan engine development. Ivchenko Progress even has a concept for a fighter-grade engine that could pair well with a push to locally produce the J-31.

To be clear, I was a strong proponent of working with Ukraine many years before this conflict and wished we had gone that route instead of the detour to Russia. Working with middle-tier countries like Ukraine, Brazil, South Africa, Turkiye (back in 2015), Czechia, etc, could've been a good pathway to developing our own capabilities.

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Your logic makes sense that Fateh-2 could become Navalized ASBM The Naval chief mentioned in his speech.

I distinctly remember the below illustration P-282 was being circulated as CGI of P-282 and it does resemble like Fatah-2

Just as Babur LACM became Harbah ASCM and SLCM. Fateh-2 with its unique trajectory and flight profile could be customized for Naval role

 

[Ak01]

Your logic makes sense that Fateh-2 could become Navalized ASBM The Naval chief mentioned in his speech.

I distinctly remember the below illustration P-282 was being circulated as CGI of P-282 and it does resemble like Fatah-2

Just as Babur LACM became Harbah ASCM and SLCM. Fateh-2 with its unique trajectory and flight profile could be customized for Naval role

for ship launching i think it would be too big, though, nothing is really stopping a TEL being placed on the helideck really. OTOH, with a smaller booster, YJ-21E could likely be easily containerised for the ships - though FWIW it really shouldn't be deployed on ships with space limitations IMO

 

[Quwa]

for ship launching i think it would be too big, though, nothing is really stopping a TEL being placed on the helideck really. OTOH, with a smaller booster, YJ-21E could likely be easily containerised for the ships - though FWIW it really shouldn't be deployed on ships with space limitations IMO View attachment 22448

If not for the P-282 confusion, I felt that the PN would deploy ASBMs at the coast as an A2/AD measure. IIRC that's how China used it until very recently.

 

[CSAW]

@Waz @LeGenD @mods
Sticky Thread if deemed suitable.

 

[farooqbhai]

If not for the P-282 confusion, I felt that the PN would deploy ASBMs at the coast as an A2/AD measure. IIRC that's how China used it until very recently.

And not to forgot that P282 exists in air launched variant as well.

 

[gentleman]

And not to forgot that P282 exists in air launched variant as well.

what do you think p282 will end up like, either yj21 or fatah2 type or even smash supersonic cruise missile,

 

[farooqbhai]

what do you think p282 will end up like, either yj21 or fatah2 type or even smash supersonic cruise missile,

Its no longer a question of what it will end up like, rather a question of what it is now. Since I think we might see it this year.

 

[JamD]

what i seriously wonder now is why FC-31 then, the PAF is clearly throwing its weight behind the Turks, yes, i get being risk averse, but the FC-31 is hardly a completed product anyway and from what i can see, seems nothing more than an aircraft for those really low budget forces who cant afford to keep up but also cant afford to fall behind. The FC-31 literally seems like an airframe populated with a mish mash of readily available components. I would be seriously concerned about starting an arms race based around the FC-31, its a product that doesn't seem ready or suited to the needs of the force- radar derived from the KLJ-7A, Engines derived from the RD-33, alot of the kit being off the shelf readily available stuff- sure, it makes sense in the context of commonality and whatnot, but surely commonality with the JF-17 should not be a priority of your top of the line, highest end asset designed to do the bulk of the offensive work?

I get it is late to contribute much of value to the TFX, but there is still so many opportunities in relation to that project- let the Turks do airframe development, we can work out an agreement where we are able to develop munitions, or supporting equipment under their guidance and leadership, ive never been a super huge believer in the TFX, im sure you remember my sceptical article about it @Quwa , but day by day, it gets more and more impressive, even on paper you sit there and think, this thing will genuinely be serious kit, you dont get that with the FC-31.

The engines are a major hurdle yes, but the Turks have such a good opportunity to pitch this as the 'islamic fighter', gather funding from the Gulf and accelerate engine development, allowing them to literally pour money and burn it on those engines, a true ITAR free high end solution could possibly push Turkey into having the second largest sales of FGFA's after the US, while allowing the per unit cost to drop significantly. I am skeptical of the FC-31 induction, for what its worth, i dont actually think it will happen, but i do fear that we are missing on a big opportunity here- @Quwa any idea as to the logic here

Honestly the FC31 doesn't make actual sense to me either. I suspect it's just a psyop to get maybe India to show their hand. I don't know.

As I've said on the other thread, Kaan is a good 10 to 12 years away for the PAF. However, I don't see an urgency to acquie FGFA in this region, which again makes the FC31 thing weird.

Related funny note: The Turks weren't too happy with the FC31 announcement because they (probably rightly) assume that there's only room for 1 FGFA in the PAF.

 

[Ak01]

Honestly the FC31 doesn't make actual sense to me either. I suspect it's just a psyop to get maybe India to show their hand. I don't know.

As I've said on the other thread, Kaan is a good 10 to 12 years away for the PAF. However, I don't see an urgency to acquie FGFA in this region, which again makes the FC31 thing weird.

Related funny note: The Turks weren't too happy with the FC31 announcement because they (probably rightly) assume that there's only room for 1 FGFA in the PAF.

Perhaps a means of pushing for more favourable terms from the Turks wrt TFX...? Like the Sukhoi-Dassault fiasco