JamD
THINK TANK: CONSULTANT
Does seem that way.Perhaps a means of pushing for more favourable terms from the Turks wrt TFX...? Like the Sukhoi-Dassault fiasco
PAF Very Own A2A Missiles [WVR, BVR & ALCM Stand off] News, Updates & Discussions
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Quwa
Research Partner
IMO...all the more reason why I think the P282 is a supersonic-cruising missile. It'd be really odd for the PN to equip so many vessels with BMs. I don't think P282 will be a rework of the CM-302; I am more inclined to think it's the HD-1-series, which is offered in both surface-launched and air-launched variants.
Chinese Poly Technologies unveils new details on its HD-1 supersonic missile family - EDR Magazine
The Middle East has always shown considerable interest for coastal defence batteries, therefore finding a new one among the items
www.edrmagazine.eu
When you look at it rationally, the idea that the PAF would acquire J-10CEs through the rest of the 2020s and 2030s until KAAN is available made sense. Perfect sense. That's why I suspect, deep down, that the J-31 may not materialize. Those promotional videos talking about it may have been just that, promotional assets for an internal audience. The next PAF leadership can potentially, if not probably, change things.Perhaps a means of pushing for more favourable terms from the Turks wrt TFX...? Like the Sukhoi-Dassault fiasco
Speaking of "JF-17 PFX."
IMO, a better approach (in lieu of TF-X collaboration) could be to develop a new medium-weight fighter to eventually complement the KAAN. In fact, there's a gap between the KAAN and Hurjet.
If the TR Motor engine materializes, then perhaps the PAF can request it for use onboard a clean-sheet single-engine "5-Minus" design. By the time KAAN development is complete, I think TAI could be contracted to help with designing this lighter fighter.
Like the JF-17, the primary user would be the PAF (to replace the JF-17), but it would also be a larger platform (similar to the F-16 and J-10), which may attract more buyers.
In fact, if they'd market it as neither 'Western' nor 'Eastern,' but a true 'neutral' solution which one could freely configure may attract middle powers (South Africa, Ukraine, Egypt, Algeria, etc).
It wouldn't compete with the KAAN either as the KAAN is, basically, an F-15-sized heavyweight fighter. Rather, this 'Chotu Khan' would be a complementary fighter to fill in a country's lighter weight needs.
Basically, think of something like one of the South Korean KFX proposals.
hopefully we're right lol
Sparten
Registered Member
J31 is available later this decade and it will fulfill two tasks:
i. Provide a true FGFA capability to the PAF in the enar term.
ii. Bring in some new airframes as older ones are retired.
The closest earlier example I can share is the F7PG, it replaced the last F6 in the AD role and bridge the gap between the arrival of the Blk I Thunder.
Right now a lot of ROSE Mirages and F7PG are going to retire and J31 will help to replace them even if indirectly, it will take over tasks currently being done by Blk II Thunder and F16 MLU freeing those up for the ROSE and PG replacement.
Questionable- I still firmly believe the FC-31 is a parts bin plane for 2nd and 3rd tier forces who want to not fall behind.
I do not think it will provide anything near to a 'true fgfa' capability to the PAF.
Nor will it do this in the near term, both Kaan and FC-31 are atleast a decade away from being anywhere useful.
The benefit KAAN has is there is strategic interest in it actually being done well, look at all of the issues the F-35 had, these will all have major teething issues, the difference is, SAC has no real push to actually get these things done in a timely and good manner, we are at their mercy, with TFX, TAI is at the mercy of the Turkish govt, the Chinese wont use FC-31 nor will the govt particularly care.
kaku
Registered Member
FAAZ-2 LR-BVR AAM R&D Project finally disclosed by GIDS. Earlier they integrated and
tested its earlier version FAAZ-I on JF-17 which never went into production,
as it was not compatible with modern missiles like PL-15 & Meteor.
View attachment 438
PAKISTAN's GIDS displays FAAZ BVR air to air missiles at #IDEF2023.Major thing will be FAAZ-2 with 180km range and dual pulse rocket motor engine.But here we've two versions oof FAAZ-1 with 100km range. Looks like GIDS may follow the pattern of MICA missile.FAAZ BVR Missile will have two guidance oriented versions:- Radar Guided FAAZ BVR missile- FAAZ BVR missile with Infrared Imaging seeker
View attachment 439
View attachment 440
View attachment 441
Are there any R&D regarding IIR seeker & Ku band seeker?
nothing public but they use domestic seekers on the other missiles both iir and rf
RAMPAGE
Trusted Member
@Oscar @gambit @JamDIMO...all the more reason why I think the P282 is a supersonic-cruising missile. It'd be really odd for the PN to equip so many vessels with BMs. I don't think P282 will be a rework of the CM-302; I am more inclined to think it's the HD-1-series, which is offered in both surface-launched and air-launched variants.
Chinese Poly Technologies unveils new details on its HD-1 supersonic missile family - EDR Magazine
The Middle East has always shown considerable interest for coastal defence batteries, therefore finding a new one among the items
View attachment 22598
View attachment 22599
When you look at it rationally, the idea that the PAF would acquire J-10CEs through the rest of the 2020s and 2030s until KAAN is available made sense. Perfect sense. That's why I suspect, deep down, that the J-31 may not materialize. Those promotional videos talking about it may have been just that, promotional assets for an internal audience. The next PAF leadership can potentially, if not probably, change things.
Speaking of "JF-17 PFX."
IMO, a better approach (in lieu of TF-X collaboration) could be to develop a new medium-weight fighter to eventually complement the KAAN. In fact, there's a gap between the KAAN and Hurjet.
If the TR Motor engine materializes, then perhaps the PAF can request it for use onboard a clean-sheet single-engine "5-Minus" design. By the time KAAN development is complete, I think TAI could be contracted to help with designing this lighter fighter.
Like the JF-17, the primary user would be the PAF (to replace the JF-17), but it would also be a larger platform (similar to the F-16 and J-10), which may attract more buyers.
In fact, if they'd market it as neither 'Western' nor 'Eastern,' but a true 'neutral' solution which one could freely configure may attract middle powers (South Africa, Ukraine, Egypt, Algeria, etc).
It wouldn't compete with the KAAN either as the KAAN is, basically, an F-15-sized heavyweight fighter. Rather, this 'Chotu Khan' would be a complementary fighter to fill in a country's lighter weight needs.
Basically, think of something like one of the South Korean KFX proposals.
View attachment 22621
What is the justification for opting for a single vertical stabiliser in such quasi-stealth fighter concepts? Why not opt for a canted twin-tail design? Lower weight?
Oscar
Moderator
We’re assuming that is what it is which as everyone is discussing further doesn’t seem to be the case.
That being said, it can be a cost effective measure to do the minimal to reduce RCS further without any major structural design(considering the idea of adding additional support and materials to increase airframe strength).
gambit
Professional
Short answer: None.
The long answer would involve getting deeper into the structural layout of the airframe. Maybe, when they had the design on paper, turned out there is not enough room for the twin canted vertical stabs and their associated hydraulics.
MastanKhan
VIP Member
Hi,
Did you know the meaning of the sentence---or you just wanted to use these words---.
"Parts Bin aircraft"---parts from which bin---. For a 5th gen aircraft being built from scratch---parts that have yet to exist---?.
mastan, im not going to teach you to read, scroll up and you'll find the parts im referring to.
is this due to the air chief or budget or may be both .
Hakikat ve Hikmet
VIP Member
A bird in hand is worth a thousand in the bush, especially on the other side of the fence...
Being alone and Ahmak are the same...
IMO the PAF is tirelessly firing all the available cylinders to maintain the edge over the 7x larger "biblical-style" nemesis, for getting help from the trusted allies with mutual benefits is no sin or belittling:
- Building fundamental aspects of the capability in the air warfare: radars, EW, A2A missiles, AD etc.
- Surpassing the trend-line of the "robotic" non-contact warfare with the plausible induction of the stealthy platforms like KIZILELMA, ANKA-3 etc.
- Getting hands over the FGFs ASAP for an early bird catches the worm
- Fine-tuning the JF program on an on-going basis
- Etc.
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