Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

[ShapurII]

I’m talking about Iranian society in general, and I think the reason is that zionists and the west own the media...

I didn't know our local newspapers were controlled by the Zionists.

 

[ToddE]

You mean besides the fact that NATO has been encircling Russia for the last couple of decades? Besides the fact that Russia is an isolated country that nobody wants to trade with it except for a handful of countries like Iran, North Korea, India and some impoverished countries in Africa and Latin America? Again, besides the fact that other than Iran, nobody is left that gives Russia some sort of relevance in today's international politics?

Saddam's Iraq was toppled. Assad's Syria was toppled. Ghaddafi's Libya is gone. Maduro in Venezuela is already in talks with the Americans to peacefully hand over power to somebody else. Russia has never been this irrelevant in world politics. North Korea is a sad joke where people cannot even have two meals per day and it's already a Chinese controlled state and doesn't need Russia. Iran is the only country that gives them some sort of relevance in today's world.

What does it all have to do with Iran? Russia can become a hyper power or it can become another Sudan for all I care. Their actions are not affecting Iran expect some diplomatic exploitation during sanctions or fooling Khamenei in Caspian sea. China did same in sanctions. Are we some whore of a nation that were expecting Russian help in defending Iran without them declaring it? You were claiming Russian alignment with Iran. I asked you what are those alignments ?

Russia white
Iran Middle eastern

Russia Christian liberal society
Iran Shia Islamic conservative society

Russia Slav
Iran is Turko-Iranic

Russia's state goal is Russian dominance in Eurasia/Eastern Europe
Iranian State goal is destroying Israel

Russia is Iran's HC market competitor
Iran is Russia's HC market competitor

Russia's biggest trade partner is EU
Irans biggest trade partner is China

Russia supports Zionism, owns Ashkenazis
Iran opposes Zionism

What are Russian and Iranian alignments? please explain

I expect nothing from Russia but animosity. We have been enemies for centuries and they have provided times and times again in the last 3 decades that nothing has changed. If it were up to me, I would give unconditional support to Ukraine like many countries are doing, such as Turkey and Israel. Russia can do nothing but to watch that silently and suck up to these countries. Ukraine has every right to self defense.

If anything, the other Slavs (Ukrainians, Belarusians, Croats and Poles) have had better ties with us than Russians. I would happily help Poland and Ukraine provoke Russia endlessly if it were up to me.

And please do not confuse the Islamic Republic thugs with us Iranians.

You seem to have some personal grudge or irrational problem with Russia which is clouding your judgement. They are neither friends or enemies of Iran right now. If they are exploiting Iran, why is IRI allowing it? Because we have spent 4.5 decades being an irrational state with Islamic Empire utopia, our people have become stupid to the core that instead of fixing our own home, we have started expecting leverages from other. Shah's cuck son cant stop talking about CIA's support that never came to his daddy, IRI cultists cant stop talking about Russia and China, some of our Azeri faigs cant stop talking about Turkic Union ... how about we fix Iran instead of discussing Russia and US and Jews all the time.

 

[ToddE]

A Big Question
​

Why do we still think about the wars between Iran and Russia that happened centuries ago, but we don't think about the crimes committed by the British, Americans, and Anglo-Saxons that happened in recent decades?

So why is not IRI severing ties with UK, EU, Turkey, Arabs ?

 

[ShapurII]

What does it all have to do with Iran? Russia can become a hyper power or it can become another Sudan for all I care. Their actions are not affecting Iran expect some diplomatic exploitation during sanctions or fooling Khamenei in Caspian sea. China did same in sanctions. Are we some whore of a nation that were expecting Russian help in defending Iran without them declaring it? You were claiming Russian alignment with Iran. I asked you what are those alignments ?

Russia white
Iran Middle eastern

Russia Christian liberal society
Iran Shia Islamic conservative society

Russia Slav
Iran is Turko-Iranic

Russia's state goal is Russian dominance in Eurasia/Eastern Europe
Iranian State goal is destroying Israel

Russia is Iran's HC market competitor
Iran is Russia's HC market competitor

Russia's biggest trade partner is EU
Irans biggest trade partner is China

Russia supports Zionism, owns Ashkenazis
Iran opposes Zionism

What are Russian and Iranian alignments? please explain

Read my post again. I don't get why the main point of it goes over your head every time.
Even when Russia needs Iran to stay relevant, they're doing their best to weaken Iran. That just shows the depth of animosity between our nations.

Russia at this moment has too many interests that align with Iran. If anybody has some sort of personal grudge against the other one that is clouding their judgement, it applies to Russians against Iranians. I can't care less about Russia or Russians either way. In fact, three years ago I supported Russia in the war out of foolishness, but Russia's support for Israel during the Israel-Iran war was the final nail in the coffin for me.

You seem to have some personal grudge or irrational problem with Russia which is clouding your judgement. They are neither friends or enemies of Iran right now. If they are exploiting Iran, why is IRI allowing it? Because we have spent 4.5 decades being an irrational state with Islamic Empire utopia, our people have become stupid to the core that instead of fixing our own home, we have started expecting leverages from other. Shah's cuck son cant stop talking about CIA's support that never came to his daddy, IRI cultists cant stop talking about Russia and China, some of our Azeri faigs cant stop talking about Turkic Union ... how about we fix Iran instead of discussing Russia and US and Jews all the time.

No, I think it is you whose judgement has been clouded by your ideas about the role that Iran plays in the world.

Iran is a nobody that should stay low. Iranians do not want to fight Zionism. Your average Iranian on the streets of Tehran cannot care less about Zionism as long as the economic situation of Iran gets back to what it was like 20 years ago. Your average Iranian does not want Iran to be a super power either. Just a decent country with a decent standard of living. As I said, most people do not want even that much. Just to return to a few decades ago lol

As for Russia, they are absolutely our enemies. They have been our enemies for centuries and nothing has changed. The Islamic Republic is allowing it because Khamenei is a Russian agent and Khamenei is being kept in power by the Russians and the Chinese. Iranians of course cannot change this because the system is oppressive and undemocratic.

Azeri separatism in Iran is a legacy of the Russian invasion of Iran in World War II and the spread of communist ideology. Another reason why Russia is our historic enemy.

 

[Aziqbal]

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No talks, No bomb, No war

Still the same useless strategy that Iran wants to follow

they should have agreed to get the bomb and build it

25 years of nope stop nonsense

and like North Korea no one would touch Iran

 

[kastor ville]

actually I don't believe Zarif here. this is a guy who tried to blame Soleimani for bad relations with the West in a 7 hour long private interview which was weirdly recorded and somehow leaked. he always looks for a scapegoat (which is ironic, considering he is the number 1 favourite scapegoat for all of Iran's problems by the hardliners)

on your broader debate, you cannot talk about 'betrayal' from a state who you don't even have diplomatic relations with and which had already conducted numerous hostile acts against Iran (seizing oil tankers, cyber attacks, etc). but he is also right that there are no friends or enemies and every state must preserve its own interests (but he should be consistent and apply this logic to explain America's 'betrayal').

What if both scenarios are true? What if Lavrov did privately tried to back stab us? Is it implausible, hell no! We have past proof of duplicity. The actual UNSC vote that brought us here, the S-300 deal cancellation, nondelivery of Su-35s. Just lately they proposed Iran enrichment was not needed and that they could provide us with fuel. ??
Also Soleimani did think he was running the foreign policy, and bypassed the Foreign Minister.
Both scenarios look more plausible than scapegoating.

 

[kastor ville]

In case the non-persians are wondering what we're talking about here is a snippet in English

Rule #1: never trust the Russians.....how many times have written this?

 

[BigMela2onin]

Iran is a nobody that should stay low.

This is the ultimate lesson from this all. Iran is too unimportant and too easily replaceable to be untouchable, and doesn't have the competence to even be a regional power. Economically it will never be like UAE or SA, there are too many people, too many environmental challenges, and the hydrocarbon wealth ship has already sailed. The best case scenario is managing to survive the next century of climate change and maybe attaining a somewhat modest level of prosperity.

 

[PakAl]

You Pakistanis give way too much credit to this little apartheid psuedo state.....I've been hearing this stuff for a decade from you guys....just like the Arabs, always afraid for the West.
Iran shocked you guys by beating them out of Iraq.
Shocked you guys after they fired on the US base.
Shocked you guys with TP-1 and 2.
And then firing on Qatar.
And finally hitting Israel like no one ever has.
We might never win an all out war...but we showed the world these monkies are not invincible
If you all ever found your balls and got your shit together and ally yourselves with other Muslim counties, then they would never even dare to attack another nation in the middle east.
But as long as our entire neighborhood is governed by bootlickers we will never be safe.... None of us.

It's not about being afraid, it's about analysing the capabilities of rival powers. Pakistan actually took the side of Iran in this conflict, our parliament condemned Israel and not sure what happened to our Defence Minister, he went all crazy on Israel, he was lobbying Muslim nations to end relations with Israel, stop Israeli aggression and the rest but guess what noone wants to do it. End of discussion for Pakistan. We follow real politics, if the Arabs love Israel we have no issue.

Regarding muslim unity, Pakistan is Muslim nationalist state and we always support Muslim unity but when Muslim nations and leaders backstab each other then we stay away. It's the best policy since we know they will use and abuse us. Hopefully this policy stays but the future doesn't look good.

 

[PakAl]

This is the ultimate lesson from this all. Iran is too unimportant and too easily replaceable to be untouchable, and doesn't have the competence to even be a regional power. Economically it will never be like UAE or SA, there are too many people, too many environmental challenges, and the hydrocarbon wealth ship has already sailed. The best case scenario is managing to survive the next century of climate change and maybe attaining a somewhat modest level of prosperity.

I disagree. Iran can be as powerful as Turkey, has great location, resources, people. Iran only mistake was to go abit too aggressive against the west and Israel, yes keep opposing their policies but don't go over the redline and make no threats which cannot be followed. Today the west is using everything against Iran in order to weaken it, they harmed its economy and military. I see great danger for Iran but I also see that regional countries oppose any attack on Iran especially Pakistan and China (silently).

 

[BigMela2onin]

I disagree. Iran can be as powerful as Turkey, has great location, resources, people.

Iranians are not competent enough to attain this, the Turkish military couped the governnment anytime they started acting up. If they hadn't they would be in a similar situation as Iran is now.

Iran only mistake was to go abit too aggressive against the west and Israel, yes keep opposing their policies but don't go over the redline and make no threats which cannot be followed. Today the west is using everything against Iran in order to weaken it, they harmed its economy and military. I see great danger for Iran but I also see that regional countries oppose any attack on Iran especially Pakistan and China (silently).

Iran's politics are 2 extremes, go against the west to the point of self-destruction and love the west to the point of self-destruction. There's no road to prosperity or strength in Iran's future. The best it can hope for is survival.

 

[kastor ville]

A lot of people are worried about Iran being attacked again, I'm not......I'm more worried of the slow death, due to sanctions. It needs to be said, Khamenei is not very smart, he didn't understand the enemy he was facing, he wanted to take his ball and go home, as if the US/West would just leave us be..........this is not case with Cuba, after approx 60 yrs, it's not the case with Venezuela, Russia, China etc. I've said it before, and I will say it again, the old man is over his head, he's not traitor or even a bad person, he just doesn't have the tools to run a country like Iran....he's making it up as he goes along, and that has harmed us. the other problem with our country is that the smart people who do know, were silenced, or sidelined....let's face it, the don't want to go to jail or get executed. So they stayed quiet and let things be......
We need to get rid of the supreme leader, we need to reform our elections, we need free election without the Guardian council interference.
After that, we can slowly reform and get better policies in place.
1. I would send signals to the US, that we want a detente in hostilities.
2. Then assure our neighbors that we don't seek unstability.
3. We need to put a moratorium on enrichment to get the sanctions lifted.
If we do these things we can bring back the nation from the brink of ruin.....if we don't we will stumble forward like a wounded animal till something finally gives.

Oh, one more thing, we need to sweep out all the illiterate mofos out of office, all of them need to purged. No Rose Water crowds in the leadership position,

 

[925boy]

I don't see your argument here, Pakistan is in a much better and secure geopolitical position than Iran is.

Because Pakistan submitted to being a US slave, sorry lackey..no wonder its now hosting ISIS-K on behalf of c i a and nato. I know this will hurt some Pakistani forum members but the truth is the truth.

 

[925boy]

Why would IR make threats everyone knows they won't follow through on?

The Arab regimes dont trust Iran won't follow through.

If you are on arab puppet ruler, would you fear Iran?

Yes, because Iran can raise a militia in their Arab country that is stronger than the Arab country's national army. Your understanding of actually dynamics in the middle east is weak, seriously. You dont underhand anything deeper than surface level, respectfully.

 

[ShapurII]

It's not about being afraid, it's about analysing the capabilities of rival powers. Pakistan actually took the side of Iran in this conflict, our parliament condemned Israel and not sure what happened to our Defence Minister, he went all crazy on Israel, he was lobbying Muslim nations to end relations with Israel, stop Israeli aggression and the rest but guess what noone wants to do it. End of discussion for Pakistan. We follow real politics, if the Arabs love Israel we have no issue.

Regarding muslim unity, Pakistan is Muslim nationalist state and we always support Muslim unity but when Muslim nations and leaders backstab each other then we stay away. It's the best policy since we know they will use and abuse us. Hopefully this policy stays but the future doesn't look good.

You also gave the highest medal of honor (Nishan-e Imtiaz) to the Commander of CENTCOM only a few days after he bombed Iran's nuclear facilities. So, I wouldn't say Pakistan sided with Iran.

Sure, some Pakistani parliament members, some Pakistani religious figures, and millions of Pakistanis sided with Iran because we are culturally close and share the same religion and Israel is the enemy of Muslims after all, but on a practical level, no real help came from Pakistan.