Iran - Israel/US War: Israel-US declare war on Iran, Iran responds

[Aziqbal]

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No talks, No bomb, No war

Still the same useless strategy that Iran wants to follow

they should have agreed to get the bomb and build it

25 years of nope stop nonsense

and like North Korea no one would touch Iran

 

[kastor ville]

actually I don't believe Zarif here. this is a guy who tried to blame Soleimani for bad relations with the West in a 7 hour long private interview which was weirdly recorded and somehow leaked. he always looks for a scapegoat (which is ironic, considering he is the number 1 favourite scapegoat for all of Iran's problems by the hardliners)

on your broader debate, you cannot talk about 'betrayal' from a state who you don't even have diplomatic relations with and which had already conducted numerous hostile acts against Iran (seizing oil tankers, cyber attacks, etc). but he is also right that there are no friends or enemies and every state must preserve its own interests (but he should be consistent and apply this logic to explain America's 'betrayal').

What if both scenarios are true? What if Lavrov did privately tried to back stab us? Is it implausible, hell no! We have past proof of duplicity. The actual UNSC vote that brought us here, the S-300 deal cancellation, nondelivery of Su-35s. Just lately they proposed Iran enrichment was not needed and that they could provide us with fuel. ??
Also Soleimani did think he was running the foreign policy, and bypassed the Foreign Minister.
Both scenarios look more plausible than scapegoating.

 

[kastor ville]

In case the non-persians are wondering what we're talking about here is a snippet in English

Rule #1: never trust the Russians.....how many times have written this?

 

[BigMela2onin]

Iran is a nobody that should stay low.

This is the ultimate lesson from this all. Iran is too unimportant and too easily replaceable to be untouchable, and doesn't have the competence to even be a regional power. Economically it will never be like UAE or SA, there are too many people, too many environmental challenges, and the hydrocarbon wealth ship has already sailed. The best case scenario is managing to survive the next century of climate change and maybe attaining a somewhat modest level of prosperity.

 

[PakAl]

You Pakistanis give way too much credit to this little apartheid psuedo state.....I've been hearing this stuff for a decade from you guys....just like the Arabs, always afraid for the West.
Iran shocked you guys by beating them out of Iraq.
Shocked you guys after they fired on the US base.
Shocked you guys with TP-1 and 2.
And then firing on Qatar.
And finally hitting Israel like no one ever has.
We might never win an all out war...but we showed the world these monkies are not invincible
If you all ever found your balls and got your shit together and ally yourselves with other Muslim counties, then they would never even dare to attack another nation in the middle east.
But as long as our entire neighborhood is governed by bootlickers we will never be safe.... None of us.

It's not about being afraid, it's about analysing the capabilities of rival powers. Pakistan actually took the side of Iran in this conflict, our parliament condemned Israel and not sure what happened to our Defence Minister, he went all crazy on Israel, he was lobbying Muslim nations to end relations with Israel, stop Israeli aggression and the rest but guess what noone wants to do it. End of discussion for Pakistan. We follow real politics, if the Arabs love Israel we have no issue.

Regarding muslim unity, Pakistan is Muslim nationalist state and we always support Muslim unity but when Muslim nations and leaders backstab each other then we stay away. It's the best policy since we know they will use and abuse us. Hopefully this policy stays but the future doesn't look good.

 

[PakAl]

This is the ultimate lesson from this all. Iran is too unimportant and too easily replaceable to be untouchable, and doesn't have the competence to even be a regional power. Economically it will never be like UAE or SA, there are too many people, too many environmental challenges, and the hydrocarbon wealth ship has already sailed. The best case scenario is managing to survive the next century of climate change and maybe attaining a somewhat modest level of prosperity.

I disagree. Iran can be as powerful as Turkey, has great location, resources, people. Iran only mistake was to go abit too aggressive against the west and Israel, yes keep opposing their policies but don't go over the redline and make no threats which cannot be followed. Today the west is using everything against Iran in order to weaken it, they harmed its economy and military. I see great danger for Iran but I also see that regional countries oppose any attack on Iran especially Pakistan and China (silently).

 

[BigMela2onin]

I disagree. Iran can be as powerful as Turkey, has great location, resources, people.

Iranians are not competent enough to attain this, the Turkish military couped the governnment anytime they started acting up. If they hadn't they would be in a similar situation as Iran is now.

Iran only mistake was to go abit too aggressive against the west and Israel, yes keep opposing their policies but don't go over the redline and make no threats which cannot be followed. Today the west is using everything against Iran in order to weaken it, they harmed its economy and military. I see great danger for Iran but I also see that regional countries oppose any attack on Iran especially Pakistan and China (silently).

Iran's politics are 2 extremes, go against the west to the point of self-destruction and love the west to the point of self-destruction. There's no road to prosperity or strength in Iran's future. The best it can hope for is survival.

 

[kastor ville]

A lot of people are worried about Iran being attacked again, I'm not......I'm more worried of the slow death, due to sanctions. It needs to be said, Khamenei is not very smart, he didn't understand the enemy he was facing, he wanted to take his ball and go home, as if the US/West would just leave us be..........this is not case with Cuba, after approx 60 yrs, it's not the case with Venezuela, Russia, China etc. I've said it before, and I will say it again, the old man is over his head, he's not traitor or even a bad person, he just doesn't have the tools to run a country like Iran....he's making it up as he goes along, and that has harmed us. the other problem with our country is that the smart people who do know, were silenced, or sidelined....let's face it, the don't want to go to jail or get executed. So they stayed quiet and let things be......
We need to get rid of the supreme leader, we need to reform our elections, we need free election without the Guardian council interference.
After that, we can slowly reform and get better policies in place.
1. I would send signals to the US, that we want a detente in hostilities.
2. Then assure our neighbors that we don't seek unstability.
3. We need to put a moratorium on enrichment to get the sanctions lifted.
If we do these things we can bring back the nation from the brink of ruin.....if we don't we will stumble forward like a wounded animal till something finally gives.

Oh, one more thing, we need to sweep out all the illiterate mofos out of office, all of them need to purged. No Rose Water crowds in the leadership position,

 

[925boy]

I don't see your argument here, Pakistan is in a much better and secure geopolitical position than Iran is.

Because Pakistan submitted to being a US slave, sorry lackey..no wonder its now hosting ISIS-K on behalf of c i a and nato. I know this will hurt some Pakistani forum members but the truth is the truth.

 

[925boy]

Why would IR make threats everyone knows they won't follow through on?

The Arab regimes dont trust Iran won't follow through.

If you are on arab puppet ruler, would you fear Iran?

Yes, because Iran can raise a militia in their Arab country that is stronger than the Arab country's national army. Your understanding of actually dynamics in the middle east is weak, seriously. You dont underhand anything deeper than surface level, respectfully.

 

[ShapurII]

It's not about being afraid, it's about analysing the capabilities of rival powers. Pakistan actually took the side of Iran in this conflict, our parliament condemned Israel and not sure what happened to our Defence Minister, he went all crazy on Israel, he was lobbying Muslim nations to end relations with Israel, stop Israeli aggression and the rest but guess what noone wants to do it. End of discussion for Pakistan. We follow real politics, if the Arabs love Israel we have no issue.

Regarding muslim unity, Pakistan is Muslim nationalist state and we always support Muslim unity but when Muslim nations and leaders backstab each other then we stay away. It's the best policy since we know they will use and abuse us. Hopefully this policy stays but the future doesn't look good.

You also gave the highest medal of honor (Nishan-e Imtiaz) to the Commander of CENTCOM only a few days after he bombed Iran's nuclear facilities. So, I wouldn't say Pakistan sided with Iran.

Sure, some Pakistani parliament members, some Pakistani religious figures, and millions of Pakistanis sided with Iran because we are culturally close and share the same religion and Israel is the enemy of Muslims after all, but on a practical level, no real help came from Pakistan.

 

[ShapurII]

This is the ultimate lesson from this all. Iran is too unimportant and too easily replaceable to be untouchable, and doesn't have the competence to even be a regional power. Economically it will never be like UAE or SA, there are too many people, too many environmental challenges, and the hydrocarbon wealth ship has already sailed. The best case scenario is managing to survive the next century of climate change and maybe attaining a somewhat modest level of prosperity.

Iran is a major power in Asia and the Middle East, it is the Ayatollah regime that doesn't know how to rule over the country and has picked the entire West and Zionism as our enemies to our detriment.

There's a huge difference between Asia and the Western world. Iran is in a good position in Asia, but not on the world stage. People who say the Western civilization is dying are right in theory, but it's going to take a long time before the Western dominance is over and Iran cannot and should not sacrifice itself and wait for that to happen. Just look at the UN Security Council, for example. Out of 5 permanent members, 4 of them are European by culture. And change will happen with or without Iran's actions and resistance. The decline of the Western civilization and the worsening of the Israeli public image have had nothing to do with Iran anyway.

Iran should stay aside, let the world move forward on its natural course as we are too insignificant to cause changes, and live in the moment instead of trying to be a revolutionary, outlier state.

 

[PakAl]

You also gave the highest medal of honor (Nishan-e Imtiaz) to the Commander of CENTCOM only a few days after he bombed Iran's nuclear facilities. So, I wouldn't say Pakistan sided with Iran.

Sure, some Pakistani parliament members, some Pakistani religious figures, and millions of Pakistanis sided with Iran because we are culturally close and share the same religion and Israel is the enemy of Muslims after all, but on a practical level, no real help came from Pakistan.

So what, we also selected Trump for Nobel prize. Iran is also dealing with USA right now, having meetings, trying to cut a deal, the same Usa which bombed them. Usa Israel Quad EU Nato rule the world, this is the fact. Poor and weak nations have to find ways to deal with world powers. It wasn't just a parliament member but Pakistan Defence Minister.
Anyways if you think Pakistan didn't do anything then fair enough I was making a point.

 

[PakAl]

Because Pakistan submitted to being a US slave, sorry lackey..no wonder its now hosting ISIS-K on behalf of c i a and nato. I know this will hurt some Pakistani forum members but the truth is the truth.

I always question as if ISIS falls from the skies, who gives them weapons, training, literature for brainwashing. The clear answer is what happened in Syria and who is Jolani but Muslims on purpose choose to ignore facts. We live in a time where great liers exist. Terrorism is taking place in alot of Muslim countries. Indonesia, Mali, Sudan, Niger, Nigeria, Somalia, Libya, Syria, Yemen, Pakistan, Morocco, Algeria and a few others. The root cause of terrorists is the same, they use similar methods to brainwash people, read similar books, media, those who train them are the same or linked.

Usa/western world has successfully created their own Islamic sect, this sect is very active, it is religious political and financial movement, backed by petrodollars, their future children will join the army of dajaal

Regarding Pakistan, we are in a complicated situation, we have enemy 3 x large, population 7x large, economy 20x large, military 3x large. I disagree with the rulers but they believe they need to stay friendly with all world powers in order to survive. Usa is not alone, it is Nato EU GCC Quad, all work together.

Iran needs a similar policy to survive. I believe Iran Pakistan can be perfect allies, with alliance with China. Nobody will be able to touch us in this century.

 

[PakAl]

Iranians are not competent enough to attain this, the Turkish military couped the governnment anytime they started acting up. If they hadn't they would be in a similar situation as Iran is now.

Turkish people are highly educated and disciplined. I never been Iran so cannot say much but over the years everything can change for the better.

The world powers, Israel, GCC want Iran to completely leave middleeast. I think Iran should do that, concentrate on Iran only, imrove relations with neighbours, China, central asia, Turkey, ASEAN, Africa, slowly with EU and improve economy, military.

The current leaders are doing something similar, as some members mentioned Iran officially has been quiet regarding middleeast and anti Israel Usa statements.