1st HANGOR Class Submarine of Pakistan Navy has been launched at Shuangliu

[Lulldapull]

Pakistani defense wala?

jee jnaab

 

[maverick]

celebratory music

 

[huanghong]

Is it similar to our SMART?
View attachment 36770
View attachment 36772

It doesn’t seem to be the same, according to data from wiki
SMART range of 643 km
df-100 range is around 2,000 to 3,000 kilometres

 

[Zarvan]

So, what you want is a 20,000-ton SSBN?
I have to say, this is an amazing ambition
The Ohio class of nuclear-powered submarines includes the United States Navy's 14 ballistic missile submarines (SSBNs) and its four cruise missile submarines (SSGNs). Each displacing 18,750 tons submerged, the Ohio-class boats are the largest submarines ever built for the U.S. Navy.

No but at least a SSN which carries at least 60 cruise missiles. Otherwise it's waste of money.

 

[FuturePAF]

I don't know if these VLS carry only 18 cruise missiles or more. Because going for a nuclear submarine which carries only 18 VLS is not feasible or makes any sense.

Why? Please elaborate. 18 is too few or too many?

 

[Zarvan]

Why? Please elaborate. 18 is too few or too many?

18 is too few. Like really low number. The price of a nuclear sub and this capability doesn't match. The ones produced by Russia and USA carry close or more than 100 cruise missiles

 

[FuturePAF]

18 is too few. Like really low number. The price of a nuclear sub and this capability doesn't match. The ones produced by Russia and USA carry close or more than 100 cruise missiles

I think 18 is fine if it’s SLBMs or stealthy nuclear cruise missiles for a second strike force. I think the VLS are only 533 mm in diameter, but I don’t recall. This is where the DF-100 could be useful for Pakistan; a superosnic cruise missile (range 2000-3000 km in its full length, probably could be shortened and made to fit the VLS subs with a range of 1000-1500 km) that could offer a formidable second strike force in those 18 VLS, especially if the missile can be hypersonic and maneuverable and carry decoys.

For conventional use, 18 is low. The Type 095 is said to carry 30, and the Virginia class are suppose to carry 40.

The 100+ on the OHIO class SSBNs converted to SSGN are a special force of 4 subs.

 

[SABRE]

China is more than willing to export them. There are several issues for example one issue was German engines in Hangoor class which Germany refused to give. Now we got them with Chinese ones. Thailand for this very reason cancelled it's orders. China is even finding it difficult to export Type 39 submarines, Type 52 D Destroyers and Type 54 A frigates. Just because China hasn't exported some weapons people assume it's because they have some laws. Dude if you have money China will sell you ballistic missiles of 3000 KM range like they did in case of Saudi Arabia

Those missiles - i.e., DF-3A - that China sold to Saudi Arabia in the 1980s are the least sophisticated military hardware it ever produced. It is notoriously inaccurate. China in 1980s would have sold its military hardware at almost any cost to anyone, so long it returned financial or political profit. Also, and I am saying this respectfully, your suggestion that China is "more than willing to export" n-subs [to Pakistan] is oversimplified. While indeed there were rumours of Pakistan considering leasing Type-91SSN, I do not think that there was much seriousness in that contemplation. Besides, the submarine was a floating radioactive/cancerous death trap for sailers anyway. On the other hand, selling or leasing Type-93 SSN or Type-94 SSBN is out of question for several reasons:

1. Political cost would be too high, although since much reduced because of the AUKUS n-sub deal (political cost remains high for Pakistan though).

2. Resource constraint, especially financial and infrastructural, of Pakistan/PN.

3. Foremost of all, PLAN's requirements come first and they have not been met yet.

 

[DDG-80]

It doesn’t seem to be the same, according to data from wiki
SMART range of 643 km
df-100 range is around 2,000 to 3,000 kilometres

These real-world ranges of SMART underwent thorough testing by the developmental agency, whereas the Chinese ones are merely claims on paper.
Developing supersonic cruise missiles with ranges spanning 2,000 to 3,000 km encounters formidable challenges due to the intricate interplay of propulsion, aerodynamics, and fuel efficiency required to sustain supersonic speeds over long distances. Additionally, ensuring precise navigation, target acquisition, and operational reliability further complicates the engineering feat. These multifaceted technical barriers make the realization of such missiles presently unattainable.

 

[Peregrine]

Will it be able to launch hypersonic missiles? I think cruise missiles are vulnerable to missile defence, as we saw witnessed in the recent skirmish between Israel and Iran.

Anyway, congrats to Pakistan.

 

[huanghong]

These real-world ranges of SMART underwent thorough testing by the developmental agency, whereas the Chinese ones are merely claims on paper.
Developing supersonic cruise missiles with ranges spanning 2,000 to 3,000 km encounters formidable challenges due to the intricate interplay of propulsion, aerodynamics, and fuel efficiency required to sustain supersonic speeds over long distances. Additionally, ensuring precise navigation, target acquisition, and operational reliability further complicates the engineering feat. These multifaceted technical barriers make the realization of such missiles presently unattainable.

No, in fact, what you said is just your imagination. You emphasized various difficulties in research and development, but you have no evidence to prove that these difficulties can defeat Chinese researchers.
Please note that the DF-100 participated in the parade, this is a weapon that has already entered service

 

[Bentley777]

Bro I'm not knowing anything about submarines tactics but I know one thing ballistic missiles have extremely large RCS (radar cross-section) and IR (infrared) signature compared to cruise missiles can be detected by Indian greenpine and other long range radars upon launch and throughout flight, India has mid-course ABM system which can intercept MRBMs during mid-phase of flight before separation of its warheads, and conventional ballistic missiles trajectories can be predicted pretty easily and hence interception by ABM systems unless we develop some kinds of maneuvering warheads or boost glide vehicles to counter Indian ABM system, I think boost glide vehicles works not very well on MRBMs so we chose MIRV to overwhelm Indian ABM system but they have multiple layers of ABM systems to counter Pakistani and Chinese ballistic missiles threats but MIRV trajectory is same as conventional ballistic missiles trajectories hence can be easily intercepted

And last their should be no tit for tat move by Pakistan if India is developing SSBN and SLBM so Pakistan must develop the same capability to counter India, this wouldn't be the answer, Pakistan will come out of box thinking to counter this threat,

SLCM is the answer, they are slow but they have very low RCS and IR signature and terrain hugging capability as compare to ballistic missiles hence the chances of being detected and interceptions are much less than ballistic missiles

Every ballistic missiles be normal OR MIRV can be intercepted than whats the point of having them and developing them and upgrading them.then there should be no missile program why investing so much and if you cannot deliever war head than whats the point of being nuclear power. I dont know why you are keep bringing ABMS. Every one has it so what every one is ready to counter it. You already decided looks like all are missiles are being intercepted. You know what happened to s400 in ukraine russia war. Ukraine tactically defeated it easily. There should always we be tit for tat history tells the same. SLBM has nothing to with india if they have it or not doesnot matter. we should be able to deliever war heads in all 3 domains. Land forces and air force are making slowly progress towards it. Navy seems to be left behind with only SLCM. On the other hand your statement are also contradicting by saying we have less option because ballistic missile and MIRV can easily be intercepted so by that statement we need to discover more option for ability to counter. By that means it is even more imp to have SLBM.

 

[CSAW]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1784549587396813119

 

[huanghong]

These real-world ranges of SMART underwent thorough testing by the developmental agency, whereas the Chinese ones are merely claims on paper.
Developing supersonic cruise missiles with ranges spanning 2,000 to 3,000 km encounters formidable challenges due to the intricate interplay of propulsion, aerodynamics, and fuel efficiency required to sustain supersonic speeds over long distances. Additionally, ensuring precise navigation, target acquisition, and operational reliability further complicates the engineering feat. These multifaceted technical barriers make the realization of such missiles presently unattainable.

is the Chinese ones are merely claims on paper?
No, the Pentagon believes that this is a weapon that has been in service for many years.
The maturity level is far from what Indian SMART, which is still under development and testing, is qualified for comparison.

in the space of just ten years no other military in the world has grown its arsenal as much as China's armed forces. It remains difficult to study and measure the weapon systems the PLA's branches have accumulated since around 2009 and 2010 until 2019 as these are so plentiful and trustworthy data on them can be speculative at best. The same applies to a new road mobile cruise missile carried in twos by a transporter called the DF-100. From across the Pacific serious US assessments by the Pentagon indicate the DF-100's that Appeared at an immense military parade in 2019 (pictured above) can strike targets beyond the first island chain.


The “first island chain” is a geographical concept that enjoys a lot of mileage in Western media and scholarship when taking stock of China's adversarial position against the US in the Pacific Rim. The expanse of the island chain sees Japan, Taiwan, and the Philippines as a loose barrier to China's growing military clout and each of these countries are reinforced by longstanding alliances with the US. A problem with the concept is the island chain's true ability to counter China is hypothetical since Japan, Taiwan, and the Philippines have inadequate air and naval forces in varying degrees.

With the arrival of the DF-100, however, the PLA Rocket Force (PLARF) have still another potent weapon system that broadens their ability to coerce, deter, and even subjugate a future opponent. In the Pentagon's own literature, such as its annual report on Chinese military strength, the DF-100 is understood to have an effective range of “approximately 2,000 km” while further details aren't provided. Yet one well-known think tank considers the DF-100 as a family of cruise missiles derived from the CJ-10/DH-10 (also known as the DF-10A) and it has an air-launched variant for the H-6K strategic bomber. Unlike other Chinese cruise missiles the DF-100 has an air-breathing ramjet engine and is classified as a supersonic, rather than a subsonic, cruise missile.

The Chinese DF-100 Is The Ultimate Cruise Missile

Via Chinese state media. In the space of just ten years no other military in the world has grown its arsenal as much as China’s armed forces. It remains difficult to study and measure the wea…

21stcenturyasianarmsrace.com

 

[Oscar]

Not even close.
Missile Boats are sent away from threats and where they can be protected by own assets. Attack subs need to hunt down and destroy the enemy.
You may as well ask why why strategic missile groups, armed with BM don't operate with strike formations..

Once again -

If you are looking to launch a cruise missile as part of first or second strike YOU DONT WANT to be detected but be able to get close enough.

You are no longer trying to hunt anyone - you are avoiding contact.

Boomers are actively trailed and hunted as valuable assets in their arctic bastions with subs tailing them from the get go. Their missile ranges mean they can stay relatively safe in those areas to try and launch at targets from those locations or they can go near the coasts and tempt more patrols.

Pakistani SSK subs do not have that luxury - for them the goal in such a scenario is to be able to go undetected all the way down the Indian coast to an area where they can launch their systems.

In that regard they can behave like attack boats when needed but then need to go down the quiet route like American subs do and avoid all detection to get close enough for CM launchz