1st HANGOR Class Submarine of Pakistan Navy has been launched at Shuangliu

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

We didn't go with it than due to major economic issues. Plus, CPEC was not in the sight, so Navy was not that being focused on. But after 8 Hangoor from China. Next step very well could be a joint development of some sort of nuclear submarine. Either an SSN or SSBN.

First we have to do R&D for SSK from scratch than think of SSN or SSBN, there is no shortcut on any defense fields

 

[JohnWick]

First we have to do R&D for SSK from scratch than think of SSN or SSBN, there is no shortcut on any defense fields

We can buy a nuclear submarine with TOT if we have money.

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

I think next should be Pakistan building its own nuclear-powered sub with help from friends, It could be based on a hangor base design.

Where is $$$ to R&D for SSN we haven't any funds even for developing SSK let alone nuclear submarines lol

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

We can buy a nuclear submarine with TOT if we have money.

Who gonna give you their strategic tech,? only option we have to lease just like India did in past

 

[JohnWick]

Who gonna give you their strategic tech,? only option we have to lease just like India did in past

We could buy at least 2 submarines in the same budget of that 8 subs we are procuring.

 

[Qureshi]

Agreed !

12 Frigates, 4 F22, 4 Jinnah Class, and 4 Type 54
13 Subs, 8 Hangor, 3 Agostas 90, 2 Agosta 70

How many Corvettes ?

Surface/Sub Fleet (Current/on active duty):

• 04 (FFGs) - F22Ps
• 04 (FFGs) - 054A/Ps
• 01 (FFGs) - OHP
• 01 (CORs) - Milgem (Commissioned but not yet joined the fleet)
• 02 (CORs) - Damen OPV design
• 03 (SSKs) - A90Bs (MLU-ed)

Surface/Sub Fleet (post 2025-30):

• 04 (FFGs) - F22Ps (will receive MLU)
• 04 (FFGs) - 054A/Ps
• 04 (FFGs) - Jinnah (2+2 batch, based on AS3400/3600 design)
• 04 (CORs) - Milgem
• 04 (CORs) - Damen OPV design
• 03 (SSKs) - A90Bs (MLU-ed)
• 08 (SSKs) - 039Bs

Surface/Sub Fleet (post 2030-35):

• 04 (FFGs) - F22Ps (MLU-ed)
• 04 (FFGs) - 054A/Ps
• 08 (FFGs) - Jinnah (2+6 batch, based on AS3400/3600 design)
• 04 (CORs) - Milgem
• 04 (CORs) - Damen OPV design
• 03 (SSKs) - A90Bs (MLU-ed)
• 08 (SSKs) - 039Bs
• 06 (SSK-Ns) - New upcoming Chines design
• 03 (SSPs) - Italian Design (S800)

 

[NGAD IS THE BEST]

We could buy at least 2 submarines in the same budget of that 8 subs we are procuring.

Main question is that who goes to give you? Only lease will be the option and that's only for older submarines

 

[Awwad]

We could buy at least 2 submarines in the same budget of that 8 subs we are procuring.

Reportedly 8 subs deal was whopping 5 Billion USD. Do you think this much money is laying around for next purchase ? Or you were suggesting that instead of these 8 we should have bought 2 nuclear? These 8 submarines will benefit lot more than 2 nuclear subs for Pakistan's threat environment.

Expecting Pakistan to buy nuclear subs is just wishful thinking. Previous Pakistan's submarine purchase was more than 20 years ago (Agosta-90bs). See the pattern, It will be atleast decades before Pakistan goes for next mega submarine purchase. Cherish whatever you are getting. With such constrained budget these 8 subs are already a great deal and will add lot of power & capability.

Nuclear subs are for the major powers OR for the nations where their area of operation is global or at very long distances. Those nation's have their adversaries at long distances, like US- Russia, US-China, China-India, China-Aus, etc. Pakistan isn' t going to challenge any far off nation ever. Its entirely focused towards India which is its immediate neighbor.

Another benefit of nuclear sub (other than range) is that it do not have to surface for air (recharging batteries). The AIP technology improves this at a great deal. Those subs can be even more quiet than nuclear ones.

Lastly, SSN (a nuclear attack submarine) could be an option at a very later date, depends upon economic revival. But SSBN (nuclear powered with nuclear capable BM sub) is not going to be an option for Pakistan (that's my opinion). Pakistan will have to be drastically changed in order to get something like that. Such weapons are for truly independent states / global powers which can make their own policy. States which have guts enough to stand for their sovereignty and not attack own govt for others appeasement, States which do not fear for sanctions, States which are independent economically. No one is allowing Pakistan to carry its nukes and roam around the world. Global order isn't extra bothered about Pakistani nukes because we have ensured them that these nukes are for india specific. The SPD ex-DG himself said in US one of conferences that Pakistan will not increase range of its strategic BMs more than what they are. He was giving a clear message that don't worry, our nukes are for India only.

 

[Admiral General Aladin]

This project has been slowly brewing in the background and finally the sub is here. Good to see. It is an intermediate step until PN get their hands on nuclear subs one day.

Well.Pn shouldn’t invest pn nuclear sub.it’s too costly.what PN should do is that investing in conventional AIP submarine with VLS capability.imagine PN had 2000-2500 ton submarine with vls(4-6 SLBM each) capability will be force to be recon with

 

[Admiral General Aladin]

True, but we should get nuclear submarine technology though.

Even little India has them. lol.

India is not little, you idi***.they're 7 time larger than Pakistan.

 

[Admiral General Aladin]

Even when you were asking for Hangoor they offered nuclear ones. You chose Type 39. Also, even if we can afford, I don't think China's Nuclear Submarines specially the ones which can carry cruise missiles are at that level that we should get them. Ballistic Missile ones for nuclear deterrence could come maybe 3 or at best 4. But those who carry cruise missiles in large numbers for conventional strikes which I would love to see in our Navy they are a distant reality.

Bro.you're a delusional person.even delusional has a limit.but you have just crossed it.don’t take it personal bro.

 

[Zarvan]

Bro.you're a delusional person.even delusional has a limit.but you have just crossed it.don’t take it personal bro.

Mr. many senior members of this forum and also recently closed previous forum who are not here know this. I also came to know from here. Plus, few other places. Nuclear Submarines were offered. But technology of China nuclear submarines when we started talking for Subs was not where it's today and even today it's far away from western or even Russian ones. Plus, economic concerns were there. If you have money China won't have any issue selling your nuclear submarines. Dude, they sold Ballistic Missiles of more than 2000 KM Range including one with 4000 KM Range to Saudi Arabia. In all international laws you can't see ballistic missiles specially of this range, still they did. In international area laws don't matter, mainly for the powerful. Those law only exist to blackmail the week. You come out of your delusion. Make your economy better be read to spend it on Navy as far as Russia and China are concern if you have money you would get the weapons you want.

 

[arslank01]

Plus, few other places. Nuclear Submarines were offered

ah yes, the british, the americans, french, indians, russians and chinese all rushing to sell us their nuke boats zarvan, they just werent good enough so we picked an older Chinese designed AIP SSK.

 

[Zarvan]

ah yes, the british, the americans, french, indians, russians and chinese all rushing to sell us their nuke boats zarvan, they just werent good enough so we picked an older Chinese designed AIP SSK.

Did I mention those countries. You kid did. I said China and if you are delusional about our relationship with China and how much we are getting from them. Than your fault. Dude gives one example of a country in the whole world whose signs a fighter jet contract with other country and gets the first jet in less than a year. Only we did with J-10 C. So Grow up and do research

 

[SABRE]

Mr. many senior members of this forum and also recently closed previous forum who are not here know this. I also came to know from here. Plus, few other places. Nuclear Submarines were offered. But technology of China nuclear submarines when we started talking for Subs was not where it's today and even today it's far away from western or even Russian ones. Plus, economic concerns were there. If you have money China won't have any issue selling your nuclear submarines. Dude, they sold Ballistic Missiles of more than 2000 KM Range including one with 4000 KM Range to Saudi Arabia. In all international laws you can't see ballistic missiles specially of this range, still they did. In international area laws don't matter, mainly for the powerful. Those law only exist to blackmail the week. You come out of your delusion. Make your economy better be read to spend it on Navy as far as Russia and China are concern if you have money you would get the weapons you want.

China sold DF-3A to Saudi Arabia slightly before it made political commitment to observe the Missile Technology Control Regime's (MTCR) guidelines, which prohibits the export of missile systems exceeding 300km range as well as dual-use items used in making such missiles. In any case, the MTCR is an informal regime, meaning its non-binding. More importantly, China, Saudi Arabia, and even Pakistan are not members to the MTCR. The Hague Code of Conduct Against Ballistic Missile Proliferation, which supplements the MTCR, is politically binding but, again, China is not a signatory to it. In short, China was and remains unbound by international law or regime on ballistic missile proliferation.