1st HANGOR Class Submarine of Pakistan Navy has been launched at Shuangliu

[MastanKhan]

We are self sufficient in steal industry

Hi,

What are you on sir---. "sufficient in steal industry---" maybe in dreams---.

 

[Awwad]

We are self sufficient in steal industry

steal -- yes, we have great expertise.

steel -- nope, i don't think so. Not anymore.



Pakistan steel mills, once a great organisation is loss-making entity for decades now. The decline started with nationalization, but the real problem started with massive incompetent & over-staffing from the 90's, many ghost employees were inducted by PPP. The party workers of PPP got benefits of monthly salaries & perks from PSM and other govt entities while never going to work. Such kind of mafia exist in the country.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Where india came from topic of nuclear subs. size of country has nothing to with having nuclear subs its depends on your war doctrine and technology superiority and country economy . If size of country had something to do with nuclear subs both france uk wont have it they combine make pakistan total area.

The best option for Pakistan to acquire the SSN is to update the Hangor class into the Type 041.

Type 041 Mini Nuclear Submarine: Unlimited Endurance After a Single Load, Enhancing the Submarine Force’s Combat Power

On the occasion of the 75th anniversary of the founding of the People's Liberation Army Navy of China, the latest news circulating on the internet suggests that a new type of nuclear-powered submarine, equipped with a domestically produced mini nuclear reactor, has been launched by a certain...

www.china-arms.com

 

[Imran khan 7250]

steal -- yes, we have great expertise.

steel -- nope, i don't think so. Not anymore.



Pakistan steel mills, once a great organisation is loss-making entity for decades now. The decline started with nationalization, but the real problem started with massive incompetent & over-staffing from the 90's, many ghost employees were inducted by PPP. The party workers of PPP got benefits of monthly salaries & perks from PSM and other govt entities while never going to work. Such kind of mafia exist in the country.

Awwad.

As far as steel mill is concerned, we once installed " steel" mill. Then we converted into "steal" mill. Now it has been converted into "still" mill.

 

[Imran khan 7250]

Awwad.

As far as steel mill is concerned, we once installed " steel" mill. Then we converted into "steal" mill. Now it has been converted into "still" mill.

Ajab upgradation ki gazab kahani

 

[Oscar]

Awwad.

As far as steel mill is concerned, we once installed " steel" mill. Then we converted into "steal" mill. Now it has been converted into "still" mill.

A few innocent people were also nabbed by NAB in either trying to catch or cover up the real criminals who were never caught.

 

[FuturePAF]

The best option for Pakistan to acquire the SSN is to update the Hangor class into the Type 041.

Type 041 Mini Nuclear Submarine: Unlimited Endurance After a Single Load, Enhancing the Submarine Force’s Combat Power

On the occasion of the 75th anniversary of the founding of the People's Liberation Army Navy of China, the latest news circulating on the internet suggests that a new type of nuclear-powered submarine, equipped with a domestically produced mini nuclear reactor, has been launched by a certain...

www.china-arms.com

The PN needs a small fleet of real SSNs, IMHO, but probably should consider building the last two or three boats of the Hangor class with this new tech, and after working out the design in the fleet, refine it and apply it to the earlier six at a midlife upgrade in 15 years.

Btw, are the Hangor and the Type 094 build from the same steel quality?

Per Wikipedia about the Hangor;
“The entire hull is built from continuously-cast 921A and 980 steel (with yield strengths of 590-745 MPa and 785 MPa), while the hull-sections are assembled using modular construction methodology.”

This would indicate a max diving depth of approx. ~300 meters per the reference. If the Hangor and the Type 094 are build from the same quality steel, the depth seems too shallow considering the Type 093 is said to be able to dive deeper and I assume if made of the same material as the Type 094. Correct me if I’m wrong.

The reference is Indian so I’m not sure, but here is an interesting video I found.



The Type 093B is said to be able to dive to 450 meters and it is standard for Russian and American subs to be able to dive to 600 meters as their normal max diving depth.

With the advancement towards the Type 095, is China set to use HY-100 steel, and build subs that are also in the 600 meter max depth category? It will definitely be a lot more expensive, but with economies of scale, it could mean costs are kept to a minimum and we could see the option for very capable deeper diving SSKs and Small SSNs for allied navies like the PN.

IMHO, the PN needs at least 3 SSGNs/SSBNs with at least 6 VLS that can fit a 1500 km SLBM or 18 Cruise missiles depending on the mission, but probably can’t afford it for the foreseeable future and needs to look at more economical options.

A more modest design, which is able to run silent (under 100 db) and run deep (600 meters), while having a world class sonar suite to evade or hunt enemy forces would be worth building. Something short of that won’t stand the test of time. High speed would be a plus, but depth and quietness are paramount.

IMHO, the last two or three boats of Hangor class should be build with next generation steel (HY-80 at least or its Chinese equivalent, if not HY-100) as well as that “mini-reactor” (one 70-80 MW reactor off the Type 093B but improved with Type 095 tech) and a pump jet and a outer hull shaping like the U-212CD to give the PN a true next gen capability.

These two to three boats can form an experimental sub class as well as a modest nuclear deterrence SSN Force, armed with long range hypersonic follow-ons to the Babur, with a range of 1500-2000 km, such as the DF-100, fired from at least 8-10 VLS tubes on the sub.

If a design such as this can be build at a reasonable cost, the PN could probably hold off going for blue water long range SSNs/SSGNs (beyond probably leasing one Type 093G SSGN, to complicate enemy planning).

A design like this would also be a good option to replace all the non-Type 039 variant SSKs in the PLAN.

Demystifying The DF-100: A Deeper Look At China's Mysterious Cruise Missile

China’s missile arsenal has expanded greatly over the years. Here we will look at one of those missiles shrouded in mystery, the DF-100

www.overtdefense.com

Max normal depth for the Ohios supposedly at 1800 feet (~550 meters)

 

[AZADPAKISTAN2009]

Would have been great if all 4 were delivered simultaneously

 

[Bossman]

steal -- yes, we have great expertise.

steel -- nope, i don't think so. Not anymore.



Pakistan steel mills, once a great organisation is loss-making entity for decades now. The decline started with nationalization, but the real problem started with massive incompetent & over-staffing from the 90's, many ghost employees were inducted by PPP. The party workers of PPP got benefits of monthly salaries & perks from PSM and other govt entities while never going to work. Such kind of mafia exist in the country.

The Steel Mill was never private

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

The PN needs a small fleet of real SSNs, IMHO, but probably should consider building the last two or three boats of the Hangor class with this new tech, and after working out the design in the fleet, refine it and apply it to the earlier six at a midlife upgrade in 15 years.

Btw, are the Hangor and the Type 094 build from the same steel quality?

Per Wikipedia about the Hangor;
“The entire hull is built from continuously-cast 921A and 980 steel (with yield strengths of 590-745 MPa and 785 MPa), while the hull-sections are assembled using modular construction methodology.”

This would indicate a max diving depth of approx. ~300 meters per the reference. If the Hangor and the Type 094 are build from the same quality steel, the depth seems too shallow considering the Type 093 is said to be able to dive deeper and I assume if made of the same material as the Type 094. Correct me if I’m wrong.

The reference is Indian so I’m not sure, but here is an interesting video I found.



The Type 093B is said to be able to dive to 450 meters and it is standard for Russian and American subs to be able to dive to 600 meters as their normal max diving depth.

With the advancement towards the Type 095, is China set to use HY-100 steel, and build subs that are also in the 600 meter max depth category? It will definitely be a lot more expensive, but with economies of scale, it could mean costs are kept to a minimum and we could see the option for very capable deeper diving SSKs and Small SSNs for allied navies like the PN.

IMHO, the PN needs at least 3 SSGNs/SSBNs with at least 6 VLS that can fit a 1500 km SLBM or 18 Cruise missiles depending on the mission, but probably can’t afford it for the foreseeable future and needs to look at more economical options.

A more modest design, which is able to run silent (under 100 db) and run deep (600 meters), while having a world class sonar suite to evade or hunt enemy forces would be worth building. Something short of that won’t stand the test of time. High speed would be a plus, but depth and quietness are paramount.

IMHO, the last two or three boats of Hangor class should be build with next generation steel (HY-80 at least or its Chinese equivalent, if not HY-100) as well as that “mini-reactor” (one 70-80 MW reactor off the Type 093B but improved with Type 095 tech) and a pump jet and a outer hull shaping like the U-212CD to give the PN a true next gen capability.

These two to three boats can form an experimental sub class as well as a modest nuclear deterrence SSN Force, armed with long range hypersonic follow-ons to the Babur, with a range of 1500-2000 km, such as the DF-100, fired from at least 8-10 VLS tubes on the sub.

If a design such as this can be build at a reasonable cost, the PN could probably hold off going for blue water long range SSNs/SSGNs (beyond probably leasing one Type 093G SSGN, to complicate enemy planning).

A design like this would also be a good option to replace all the non-Type 039 variant SSKs in the PLAN.

View attachment 48992

Demystifying The DF-100: A Deeper Look At China's Mysterious Cruise Missile

China’s missile arsenal has expanded greatly over the years. Here we will look at one of those missiles shrouded in mystery, the DF-100

www.overtdefense.com

Max normal depth for the Ohios supposedly at 1800 feet (~550 meters)

Well, Indian media usually loves to belittle China's technology, but China's most powerful steel can yield the strength of 2200 MPa.

China's 2200 MPa super steel is coming - Bebon Steel

In recent years, with the continuous development of China's military technology, China has made rapid progress in scientific manufacturing. Not only has it developed many advanced ships, but it has also brought China's shipbuilding industr

www.bebonchina.com

China is by far the most powerful steel producer in the human history, but it would be absurd to think that our steel is much weaker than that of the US & Russia.

 

[MastanKhan]

Well, Indian media usually loves to belittle China's technology, but China's most powerful steel can yield the strength of 2200 MPa.

China's 2200 MPa super steel is coming - Bebon Steel

In recent years, with the continuous development of China's military technology, China has made rapid progress in scientific manufacturing. Not only has it developed many advanced ships, but it has also brought China's shipbuilding industr

www.bebonchina.com

China is by far the most powerful steel producer in the human history, but it would be absurd to think that our steel is much weaker than that of the US & Russia.

Hi,

China's steel production is of excellent quality but they still cannot produce the top end steel or Alloys that the US produces---.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Hi,

China's steel production is of excellent quality but they still cannot produce the top end steel or Alloys that the US produces---.

The US steel industry will be non-existent in the next decade.

Nippon Acquisition of U.S. Steel

Japanese steelmaker Nippon agreed in December 2023 to acquire U.S. Steel at a 40 percent premium to its stock price. It’s no surprise shareholders welcomed the proposal. But opposition to the deal immediately sprang forth from union bosses, the Biden administration, and politicians from both...

www.heritage.org

 

[FuturePAF]

Well, Indian media usually loves to belittle China's technology, but China's most powerful steel can yield the strength of 2200 MPa.

China's 2200 MPa super steel is coming - Bebon Steel

In recent years, with the continuous development of China's military technology, China has made rapid progress in scientific manufacturing. Not only has it developed many advanced ships, but it has also brought China's shipbuilding industr

www.bebonchina.com

China is by far the most powerful steel producer in the human history, but it would be absurd to think that our steel is much weaker than that of the US & Russia.

Not sure what steel is in the Type 095, but even Taiwanese media acknowledges China has an operational SSN that can dive to 500 meters. So China is getting close to US and Russian performance standards.

Hopefully this steel can be applied to the last three boats of the hangar class, so that even armed with 8 VLS tubes for DF-100 SLCMs, it can give the PN a decent second strike capability, to be operated from within the Pakistani EEZ bastion of along the coast but still be able to hold the entire Indian mainland at risk.

The PLAN now has one Type 095 nuclear-powered attack submarine on active duty, Chiang said. The nuclear submarine’s maximum diving depth is 500m and has a self-sustaining capability of about 90 days, he said.

Source: https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/ta...t=The PLAN now has one,about 90 days, he said.

 

[ChineseTiger1986]

Not sure what steel is in the Type 095, but even Taiwanese media acknowledges China has an operational SSN that can dive to 500 meters. So China is getting close to US and Russian performance standards.

Hopefully this steel can be applied to the last three boats of the hangar class, so that even armed with 8 VLS tubes for DF-100 SLCMs, it can give the PN a decent second strike capability, to be operated from within the Pakistani EEZ bastion of along the coast but still be able to hold the entire Indian mainland at risk.



Source: https://www.taipeitimes.com/News/taiwan/archives/2024/01/08/2003811792#:~:text=The PLAN now has one,about 90 days, he said.

I highly doubt that the steel of the US submarine is as good as they used to tout.

Metallurgist Admits She Falsified Test Results for Steel Used in Navy Submarines (Published 2021)

For more than 30 years, Elaine Thomas altered test results for more than 240 steel productions while working for a foundry that provides metal for U.S. Navy submarines.

www.nytimes.com

 

[FuturePAF]

I highly doubt that the steel of the US submarine is as good as they used to tout.

Metallurgist Admits She Falsified Test Results for Steel Used in Navy Submarines (Published 2021)

For more than 30 years, Elaine Thomas altered test results for more than 240 steel productions while working for a foundry that provides metal for U.S. Navy submarines.

www.nytimes.com

At the very least the US has been making subs, such as the seawolf out of HY-100 (which means operational depth of 600 meters is normal and theoretical crush depth of 690 meters), for decades now.

ADCAP torpedos can go down to 800 meters but the stronger steel that can go deeper, HY-130, is said to be much harder to weld. But if the new Chinese steel is as strong as you say, and if it can get a sub to 1000 meters or below, it could allow a sub to operate in the deep sound channel and evade most known threats of detection or engagement.

Although the operating depths of submarines are highly secret, their crush depth limits can be calculated approximately, solely from knowledge of the steel strength. With the stronger HY-80 steel, this depth increased to 1,800 feet (550 m) and with HY-100 a depth of 2,250 feet (690 m).[2]

HY-80 - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Quoting this reference: https://man.fas.org/dod-101/sys/ship/deep.htm

Btw if China has recently locally invented this steel, with a 2200 mpa strength, then it should be known that it has been studied in the west for the past 12 years.

EP2785888A1 - Martensitic steels with 1700-2200 mpa tensile strength - Google Patents

Martensitic steel compositions and methods of production thereof. More specifically, the martensitic steels have tensile strengths ranging from 1700 to 2200 MPa. Most specifically, the invention relates to thin gage (thickness of 1 mm) ultra high strength steel with an ultimate tensile strength...

patents.google.com