23 travellers offloaded, shot dead in Balochistan’s Musakhail after identity check:

[M. Sarmad]

Is that the reason why this conflict started?

That Baloch wanted to get rid of Punjabis?

Yes or no.

While your concerns are commendable, the initial step toward solving any problem is to recognize and define it with clarity. Political correctness and glossing over the facts will not advance the resolution.

 

[Jango]

While your concerns are commendable, the initial step toward solving any problem is to recognize and define it with clarity.

That is exactly what I am attempting to do here.

Making this a Baloch vs Punjab issue just obfuscates the facts and distills the issue to a very naive view IMO.

Political correctness and glossing over the facts will not advance the resolution.

I'd be the last guy on this forum to be politically correct

 

[M. Sarmad]

That is exactly what I am attempting to do here.

Making this a Baloch vs Punjab issue just obfuscates the facts and distills the issue to a very naive view IMO.

You are entitled to your own views, but the fact remains that the targeting, killing, and expulsion of Punjabis by Baloch due to their ethnicity is not a question of opinion but an incontrovertible reality.

 

[Oscar]

Just to add on to this, we also look onto Balochistan or the region as some third country or an occupied territory.

Kaheen 4 qadam lo to check post ajati hai for normal people, alot of restrictions on movement, communication, lawlessness, what do you think people are then gonna resort to?

Combine illiteracy and poverty into the mix, and people will fall for any propaganda you feed them.

I have seen Sindhi and Punjabi groups fight to the death in RYK/Kandhkot areas, even though the actual fight was for some other reason, but ethnic lines inevitably find their way in.

BLA released a video of their fighers going to occupy a Levies station, and small kids not more than 10 years old were waving and cheering the people on.

On a more humorous note there has been a shootout between PPP and MQM supporters in Houston,Texas so go figure.

 

[Oscar]

That’s a textbook example of victim-blaming and trying to defend the indefensible... The very premise of that question is flawed... Do you realize that you are insinuating that the victims of terrorism bear responsibility for the very acts committed against them?

9/11 was a horrible incident - do you agree?

 

[Jango]

You are entitled to your own views, but the fact remains that the targeting, killing, and expulsion of Punjabis by Baloch due to their ethnicity is not a question of opinion but an incontrovertible reality.

No one is denying that reality.

But is that the cause of the conflict?

Stop treating the symptoms, treat the cause.

 

[Jango]

On a more humorous note there has been a shootout between PPP and MQM supporters in Houston,Texas so go figure.

Oh boy, I wonder how that came about!

 

[Jango]

9/11 was a horrible incident - do you agree?

I see where you're going with this

 

[Oscar]

Look behavior matters

I'm not Punjabi, but close to the ethnicity and also have members in my family BUT what makes them different to others places is that I as a Kashmiri and go to Lahore or Punjab and apart from general safety I will be perfectly fine and dont fear any problems or issues

As someone who occasionally likes to invest, I also think hiding my money in British banks or property etc isn't always the best idea and I want to out some money in Pakistan
I look around and the safest best bet is Punjab for a variety of reasons

What makes Baloch of tribal pashtuns violent, backward, racist and unable to live like Muslims or insaan????

It's about behavior, and their own behavior is deplorable
Why would anyone go there or invest there, or trust anyone there

Your saying we need to Invest money, their and build things and provide opportunities that will help the locals change
But we are a poor nation and those regions are a black hole, very few taxes, massive security bill and issues, constant fassad
And every time the nations sinks money into those areas it's mobs and protests, roads blocked

Bottom line is people don't respect jahilat
And the INDIVIDUAL MUST TAKE SOME RESPONSIBILITY FOR THEIR OWN BEHAVIOR AND CHANGE

You’re talking to a cycle of “I eat because Im unhappy and Im unhappy because I eat”

If you don’t want to deal with this “jahilat” leave these areas alone -the ethical and morally correct approach is either by making sure no Punjabi that is part of the state apparatus is involved in policing it or protecting it and no resources are extracted from there which go to Punjab.

Then when all they see in LE and other places is just their own people - maybe they will stop?

But that wont be the case - so the next move is because you’re choosing to disconnect from these provinces there is no need to be a unified state - and that applies both ways where no one crosses each others borders and touches no resources of the other. No produce or goods from Punjab touch Balochistan and no natural resources from there come to whatever remains to be called Pakistan(or whatever name is preferred).

Because in ANY other scenario if you have chosen to exploit the resources of an area and the natives of that area are against you and regardless of what actions they take against you - they can always fall back to a root cause for which they can assign a culprit.

 

[Oscar]

I see where you're going with this

It’s simple right - october 7th - what Hamas did - should Israel complain (I believe it had some “right” but not really)because at the end many of those killed regardless of prior service or not could be quantified as civilians and they were killed for being Israelis. We know where the morality of that lies but unfortunately there is some confusion here.

Israelis call Palestinians animals and crazy people they are wrong and truly genocidal.. but we are seeing similar sentiments here and

 

[M. Sarmad]

9/11 was a horrible incident - do you agree?

And by your line of reasoning, the victims of the 9/11 attacks are to blame for their own demise, as they failed to prevent their government from engaging in foreign interventions?

 

[M. Sarmad]

Stop treating the symptoms, treat the cause.

And what, according to you, is the cause?

 

[Oscar]

And by your line of reasoning, the victims of the 9/11 attacks are to blame for their own demise, as they failed to prevent their government from engaging in foreign interventions?

Do they not shoulder any introspection? So in other words you agree with that no US citizen should care if Pakistan is played like a puppet and that results in threats to US citizens?

 

[Jango]

Because in ANY other scenario if you have chosen to exploit the resources of an area and the natives of that area are against you and regardless of what actions they take against you - they can always fall back to a root cause for which they can assign a culprit.

1- Levies etc. are already staffed by Baloch people, doesn't stop BLA from targeting them.

2- On the flip side of this argument, this whole exploitation of resources argument is waaayyy overblown. It ain't the East India company on your lands, it's your own overlords being hand in glove with the companies or government and preventing you from getting your due benefit.

Sure, federal doesn't give KP it's hydel profits and there are monetary concerns everywhere, but heck this happens almost everywhere in the world, what to say of Pakistan. Doesn't make it right, but just bringing to light the scale of challenges we face at a governmental level. Hakoomat kay pas paisa hai hi nhn.

The govt jostles for money from provinces by applying a federal petroleum levy instead of GST, so that provinces don't get it. You could call it exploitation as well if you stretch it.

Point being, although there are genuine grievances, the exploitation issue is exploited itself to full use. You are getting paid for the resources that are extracted from you. It's up to you what you do with that money.

 

[M. Sarmad]

Do they not shoulder any introspection?

That's a quintessential illustration of how terrorism can be defended and justified. Good luck with that