23 travellers offloaded, shot dead in Balochistan’s Musakhail after identity check:

[PakFactor]

This really!

The others will probably say yes. I'm not sure if it'll be before or after reading the Quran as if that would solve the issue.

 

[hussain0216]

The others will probably say yes. I'm not sure if it'll be before or after reading the Quran as if that would solve the issue.

We need to send the army I to Balochistan and tribal areas and force them to read the Qur'an in a language they understand

We got to get the xenophobia and jahilat out of them

 

[Jango]

No, sir, it’s you who’s missing the point. I’m not the one framing this as a Baloch versus Punjabi issue—that’s being done by the BLA/Baloch people, for reasons that can be debated. I am simply stating the facts. While I appreciate your noble intentions, I disagree with your approach of downplaying the issue.

To jo BLA kar rahi hai ham nay bhi wohi karna hai?

My good man this is what you wrote:

Historically, Punjab, particularly central Punjab, has been far more prosperous than its southern and western neighbors, and that's not our fault. We contribute more to the national exchequer than we receive in return, and this imbalance has always existed. We are tired of the constant complaints and blame for actions we never committed. We're also fed up with carrying the burden of unproductive ethnonationalists who benefit from our efforts. It's time to acknowledge the reality and consider ending the pretense of unity within Pakistan. Our only hope is that this transition happens without unnecessary bloodshed.

 

[Jango]

Maybe the people there could read the Quran and improve themselves?

That's the solution?

 

[PakFactor]

Maybe the people there could read the Quran and improve themselves?

How will that solve the issue? Don't we have a Hafiz-e-Quran with questionable Syed blood? Even then, orders were given to raid homes and slap women around, carry out other illegal activities, and extort money from Master Tile, among other list of items he's done, along with other officers before and after.

The issue is with the central government and establishment, and I'm saying this as a Punjabi. Until they rein in their local lords, free up the people, and courts prosecute them for illegalities, nothing will change. Just capturing one Mushtaq Raisani and jailing him will not fix the issue, as 100s of Mushtaq Raisani are running around.

The below is just a small glimpse of the situation:

The curious case of Sanjranis: How they benefited from the massive copper-gold Saindak mine project?

loksujag.com

You have a system in place that denies the rights to people. I have people who came from Baluchistan and Sindh just to, for example, marry. They need permission from the local lords, and if they fail to listen, they've sent FC and Rangers to punish them.

A real-life example is from an uncle decades ago; he worked in Baluchistan as part of a medical team. One of the farmers got sick and needed treatment, and he was called to the feudal lord's farm and advised to shift to the hospital due to his inability to get medical treatment. The Lord told him to go to that shack and get medication; he said only veterinarian supplies and medication were there, and he came back and said that would not work and told him the reason. The lord's response was this: What is the difference between a horse and a banda (man)? The horse eats, the man eats, the horse sleeps, the man sleeps.

So you see, the forces that be kept a jahil lord in power and enforced jahaliat onto the people.

What's stopping the forces from uprooting the lords and their extended families? Nothing, except that they are kept in place to maintain control.

 

[hussain0216]

How will that solve the issue? Don't we have a Hafiz-e-Quran with questionable Syed blood? Even then, orders were given to raid homes and slap women around, carry out other illegal activities, and extort money from Master Tile, among other list of items he's done, along with other officers before and after.

The issue is with the central government and establishment, and I'm saying this as a Punjabi. Until they rein in their local lords, free up the people, and courts prosecute them for illegalities, nothing will change. Just capturing one Mushtaq Raisani and jailing him will not fix the issue, as 100s of Mushtaq Raisani are running around.

The below is just a small glimpse of the situation:

The curious case of Sanjranis: How they benefited from the massive copper-gold Saindak mine project?

loksujag.com

You have a system in place that denies the rights to people. I have people who came from Baluchistan and Sindh just to, for example, marry. They need permission from the local lords, and if they fail to listen, they've sent FC and Rangers to punish them.

A real-life example is from an uncle decades ago; he worked in Baluchistan as part of a medical team. One of the farmers got sick and needed treatment, and he was called to the feudal lord's farm and advised to shift to the hospital due to his inability to get medical treatment. The Lord told him to go to that shack and get medication; he said only veterinarian supplies and medication were there, and he came back and said that would not work and told him the reason. The lord's response was this: What is the difference between a horse and a banda (man)? The horse eats, the man eats, the horse sleeps, the man sleeps.

So you see, the forces that be kept a jahil lord in power and enforced jahaliat onto the people.

What's stopping the forces from uprooting the lords and their extended families? Nothing, except that they are kept in place to maintain control.

But the local sardars are part of balauch culture

How can we get rid of the sardars and for that matter the pashtun chiefs it Sindhi wadereas without changing those cultures
The risk being the locals will then rebel and declare we are attacking their culture and the sardars etc are their freedom fighters?

 

[M. Sarmad]

To jo BLA kar rahi hai ham nay bhi wohi karna hai?

My good man this is what you wrote:

You are choosing to be optimistic, whereas I am grounded in realism. The anti-Punjab sentiment extends beyond the BLA; it is prevalent among the broader Baloch population, where the killing of Punjabis is often seen not as a crime, but as a legitimate act of retaliation. While the general Baloch people fear both the state and the BLA, they still regard the BLA etc as one of their own. Given your own first-hand experience in Balochistan, I am sure you are already aware of this.

I believe that compelling people to be part of a nation against their will undermines the essence of true nationhood. No concept, including that of nationhood, should be valued above innocent lives. In 1947 and then again in 1971, millions lost their lives. You need to ask yourself: Must countless more continue to die every few decades for the sake of political ideologies and experiments?

 

[PakFactor]

But the local sardars are part of balauch culture

How can we get rid of the sardars and for that matter the pashtun chiefs it Sindhi wadereas without changing those cultures
The risk being the locals will then rebel and declare we are attacking their culture and the sardars etc are their freedom fighters?

It's doable. If India and other European nations can do it, then it's doable in Pakistan. Cultures are fluid things; they aren't stationary in any way, and the more input is provided, the more change happens. Americans brought a cultural change in Afghanistan in two decades, and they changed in clothing, looks, education, etc.; if the Taliban came into power after the U.S. left, creating a power vacuum, that's one thing, but even the Americans are forthcoming that it was a mistake and just maintaining a temporary and small presence Afghanistan was still theirs to keep- even with the Asia-Pacific pivot.

Right now, the locals' mind is brainwashed by the lords, making them think if we are gone, it's messing with culture and tradition. Feudalism isn't cultural or traditional; it's a system, a form of rule. The kings of England ruled using a feudal system enforced through money and troops. Once the center pulled support, it collapsed.

Lastly, if the Arabs who lived in Jahaliat for centuries could change due to one man's rebellion against the system, then it would be possible.

Once someone experiences freedom, they are unlikely to revert to old ways. At that point, you can provide them with more information about the changes you want. This empowerment through freedom is a powerful catalyst for cultural transformation.

Also, the killing of Akbar Bugti didn't cause the whole tribe to revolt, so that should also tell you something.

------------------

I copied this from online, and the individual explained some excellent starting points:

Jawaharlal Nehru, as the first Prime Minister of India, played a significant role in dismantling feudal structures in the country after the partition in 1947. Here are the key ways he contributed to this transformation:

1. Land Reforms

• Abolition of Zamindari System: Nehru's government initiated land reforms aimed at abolishing the zamindari system, where landlords (zamindars) held significant power over land and its cultivation. The Zamindari Abolition Acts were passed in many states, transferring ownership of land to the tillers and reducing the power of feudal landlords. (The Constitution was amended to allow this to happen after it was struck down).
• Land Ceiling Laws: These laws were enacted to impose limits on land ownership, preventing the concentration of land in the hands of a few. Surplus land was redistributed to landless farmers and agricultural laborers.

2. Promotion of Cooperative Farming

• Nehru encouraged cooperative farming as a means to empower small farmers and promote collective ownership. This helped reduce the dependency on feudal lords and fostered a sense of community among farmers.

3. Economic Planning and Industrialization

• Nehru’s focus on planned economic development through the establishment of public sector enterprises and industrialization shifted the economic base from agriculture to industry. This transition weakened the feudal economy, as new job opportunities reduced reliance on agrarian feudal structures.

4. Education and Social Reforms

• Nehru emphasized education and social reforms, aiming to uplift marginalized communities. By promoting literacy and education, he sought to empower individuals and reduce the hold of traditional feudal hierarchies.

5. Legislation and Policies

• His government enacted various laws to promote social justice, including the Hindu Succession Act of 1956, which granted women equal rights to inherit property, challenging patriarchal and feudal norms.

6. Political Reforms

• Nehru’s emphasis on democracy and secularism helped to dismantle the political power structures that had supported feudalism. By promoting a democratic framework, he encouraged participation from diverse social groups, reducing the dominance of feudal elites.

Conclusion

Through these measures, Nehru aimed to create a more equitable society and promote economic development that would not rely on feudal systems. While challenges remained, his policies marked a significant shift toward modernity and social justice in post-independence India.

How did Nehru brought end to feudalism in India after partition?

Answer (1 of 6): In a broad sense feudalism means, large portion of the land is with few nobles with the support of king and in return they will provide military services to king. According to me we were quasi feudalistic. In 1952, Nehru’s government formed a committee called National Developmen...

www.quora.com

 

[hussain0216]

It's doable. If India and other European nations can do it, then it's doable in Pakistan. Cultures are fluid things; they aren't stationary in any way, and the more input is provided, the more change happens. Americans brought a cultural change in Afghanistan in two decades, and they changed in clothing, looks, education, etc.; if the Taliban came into power after the U.S. left, creating a power vacuum, that's one thing, but even the Americans are forthcoming that it was a mistake and just maintaining a temporary and small presence Afghanistan was still there - even with the Asia-Pacific pivot.

Right now, the locals' mind is brainwashed by the lords, making them think if we are gone, it's messing with culture and tradition. Feudalism isn't cultural or traditional; it's a system, a form of rule.

Lastly, if the Arabs who lived in Jahaliat for centuries could change due to one man's rebellion against the system, then it would be possible.

Once someone experiences freedom, they are unlikely to revert to old ways. At that point, you can provide them with more information about the changes you want to see. This empowerment through freedom is a powerful catalyst for cultural transformation.

Also, the killing of Akbar Bugti didn't cause the whole tribe to revolt, so that should also tell you something.

------------------

I copied this from online, and the individual explained some excellent starting points:

Jawaharlal Nehru, as the first Prime Minister of India, played a significant role in dismantling feudal structures in the country after the partition in 1947. Here are the key ways he contributed to this transformation:

1. Land Reforms

• Abolition of Zamindari System: Nehru's government initiated land reforms aimed at abolishing the zamindari system, where landlords (zamindars) held significant power over land and its cultivation. The Zamindari Abolition Acts were passed in many states, transferring ownership of land to the tillers and reducing the power of feudal landlords. (The Constitution was amended to allow this to happen after it was struck down).
• Land Ceiling Laws: These laws were enacted to impose limits on land ownership, preventing the concentration of land in the hands of a few. Surplus land was redistributed to landless farmers and agricultural laborers.

2. Promotion of Cooperative Farming

• Nehru encouraged cooperative farming as a means to empower small farmers and promote collective ownership. This helped reduce the dependency on feudal lords and fostered a sense of community among farmers.

3. Economic Planning and Industrialization

• Nehru’s focus on planned economic development through the establishment of public sector enterprises and industrialization shifted the economic base from agriculture to industry. This transition weakened the feudal economy, as new job opportunities reduced reliance on agrarian feudal structures.

4. Education and Social Reforms

• Nehru emphasized education and social reforms, aiming to uplift marginalized communities. By promoting literacy and education, he sought to empower individuals and reduce the hold of traditional feudal hierarchies.

5. Legislation and Policies

• His government enacted various laws to promote social justice, including the Hindu Succession Act of 1956, which granted women equal rights to inherit property, challenging patriarchal and feudal norms.

6. Political Reforms

• Nehru’s emphasis on democracy and secularism helped to dismantle the political power structures that had supported feudalism. By promoting a democratic framework, he encouraged participation from diverse social groups, reducing the dominance of feudal elites.

Conclusion

Through these measures, Nehru aimed to create a more equitable society and promote economic development that would not rely on feudal systems. While challenges remained, his policies marked a significant shift toward modernity and social justice in post-independence India.

How did Nehru brought end to feudalism in India after partition?

Answer (1 of 6): In a broad sense feudalism means, large portion of the land is with few nobles with the support of king and in return they will provide military services to king. According to me we were quasi feudalistic. In 1952, Nehru’s government formed a committee called National Developmen...

www.quora.com

And I agree with your premise

But the inevitable is that once we start to get rid of of sardars and wadereas and chiefs then their will be a phase of militancy that we will have to bare and go through

In Balochistan the sardars are a problem
In KP the chiefs are causing chaos with PTM
Wadereas in Sindhi causing havoc

Removing these people will be a tough but necessary task

 

[PakFactor]

And I agree with your premise

But the inevitable is that once we start to get rid of of sardars and wadereas and chiefs then their will be a phase of militancy that we will have to bare and go through

In Balochistan the sardars are a problem
In KP the chiefs are causing chaos with PTM
Wadereas in Sindhi causing havoc

Removing these people will be a tough but necessary task

Think of each region you pointed out as part of a body with various tumors. You isolate one area at a time and surgically remove the cancer.

It will require proper controls with FC, Rangers, and police presence to keep people in control. You then bring in learned and educated individuals and announce the freedoms for each individual, along with the implementation of what was stated above. Use Islam to tell people that no one individual is greater than the other.

Tell the people you can marry whoever you want; no Sardar is needed to permit you. Tell them you can go to the army and get jobs as officers, and no Sardar's child is the golden boy, and only he can get it. Tell them to get an education wherever they need; no one can stop them.

If anyone is threatened, tell them how to reach the proper authorities so they can take out the Sardar's lotas.

Look at it this way: Imran Khan went to jail, and on May 9th, after some litars, how many came out and started a rebellion? Half the country worships him.

 

[.44 Magnum Lever Action]

Such a long thread filled with very little information, can't believe people are wrapped up in false ethnic narratives and going off in "nothing burger" tangents. Then the capable minds have to waste their mental resources engaging with jahil theories. Shows a complete lack of understanding of the ground reality in Balochistan by the majority of people you listen to, literally like listening to goray discuss Israel-Palestine situation in the gym sauna . Khuda ka khauf karo bahi, no one's culture is superior. Now open your ears and learn something:

 

[vsdoc]

Such a long thread filled with very little information, can't believe people are wrapped up in false ethnic narratives and going off in "nothing burger" tangents. Then the capable minds have to waste their mental resources engaging with jahil theories. Shows a complete lack of understanding of the ground reality in Balochistan by the majority of people you listen to, literally like listening to goray discuss Israel-Palestine situation in the gym sauna . Khuda ka khauf karo bahi, no one's culture is superior. Now open your ears and learn something:

Bhai teen teen video.

What is the gist, or nichod. Sankshipt mein.

Cheers, Doc

 

[Jango]

How can we get rid of the sardars and for that matter the pashtun chiefs it Sindhi wadereas without changing those cultures

By not having FC use the sardars as a holding tool over the local population and an accomplice to their smuggling, that's a good start.

 

[Cipher212]

How hard is it to find these bloody BLA fighters? There should be images of their bodies lined up for display by the dozens.

Start with that tool, Mahrang and the rest of her little political party. No one's going to miss her other than Indians and LUMS students.

 

[PoKeMon]

You are choosing to be optimistic, whereas I am grounded in realism. The anti-Punjab sentiment extends beyond the BLA; it is prevalent among the broader Baloch population, where the killing of Punjabis is often seen not as a crime, but as a legitimate act of retaliation. While the general Baloch people fear both the state and the BLA, they still regard the BLA etc as one of their own. Given your own first-hand experience in Balochistan, I am sure you are already aware of this.

I believe that compelling people to be part of a nation against their will undermines the essence of true nationhood. No concept, including that of nationhood, should be valued above innocent lives. In 1947 and then again in 1971, millions lost their lives. You need to ask yourself: Must countless more continue to die every few decades for the sake of political ideologies and experiments?

Intrigued, but commendable that your line of thoughts are consistent whether its Kashmir or Balochis - the will of people to prevail.

But Sarmad Bhai, secessionist ideas are very enticing and easy to ripe and grow. More you accept, more will come.