Bangladesh celebrates 54th Independence Day today

[Joe Shearer]

@Joe Shearer, 7 March independence wasn't declared actually! Look at the sentence, "জনগণের প্রতিনিধির কাছে ক্ষমতা হস্তান্তর করতে হবে," it clearly means that he wanted to handover the power to him ; I find no reason to blame him for this , as he was the rightful PM of Pakistan!

Quite right. It was a legitimate demand for the devolution of power to the rightfully elected authority.

About Sharmin Ahmed, if she is in her aunt's house awami leaue govt should challenge her and refute her arguments! Since everyone is Razakar who oppose propaganda of Awami league , then she and her family also should be declared Razakar officially by this regime. But they are surprisingly silent on this issue!

Quite clearly, as has been pointed out elsewhere, she must have recorded what she later heard from her father. I see no reason to disbelieve her.

I would say there was only one declaration of independence and that was by Ziaur Rahman whom Hasina nowadays call a Razakar!

Well if Razakar means traitor ( it means volunteer, but in Bangladesh we take the word for traitor) , I would say he was a traitor against ruling West Pakistan!

So when Mujib surrendered after Pakistan army started crackdown in the middle of the night, Ziaur Rahman declared independence , by revolting against Pakistan armed force authority!

Later in another declaration he said that he is declaring independence on behalf of sheikh Mujibur Rahman!

Nothing to say on this. It is widely acknowledged that this was a declaration of independence, whether or not one was made elsewhere, earlier. That Major Zia made a specific declaration of independence over the radio at Chittagong, and claimed to do so on behalf of Mujib, is very well known.

However here is an article where this author provided some references from various books that supports the claims! Since it's from a third party website, so maybe you would want to check the references by yourself by reading those books directly! @Afif can also check if he has these books!

Certainly shall, thank you for the references.

Now again 7 March, final speech was ( not counting joy Pakistan, as I've no solid reference) , "এবারের সংগ্রাম আমাদের মুক্তির সংগ্রাম, এবারের সংগ্রাম স্বাধীনতার সংগ্রাম।"

But this video refuted this claim by adding a cut piece of a video of Mujibur Rahman's own voice!

All of you can check it if it's his real voice or not! Please watch the whole video thoroughly ( @Afif you too, there is no harm if you watch) ! Many video and text references are here from various books written by Mujibur Rahman's close people!

On the 8th or 9th, as I narrated, I heard the taped speech on the lawns of my father's official residence at Calcutta. It is 53 years now, and I cannot testify under oath, but I heard that phrase, I think, besides the earlier phrase demanding that power be handed over to the people's elected representatives.

Here you will also find how happily Mujib Family was living in Dhaka under Pakistani protection ( while people were dying fighting Pakistan army)!

It also explains that 6 points was actually favorable for unity of Pakistan, it has nothing to do with independence, that BAL claims nowadays!

Two things: as an Indian citizen, it would be wrong of me to comment on anything to do with the respective roles of various Bangladesh leaders. Second, I have all along pointed out in every post of mine that Mujib never fought to divide Pakistan, that it was Bhutto, and Yahya and his military colleagues who fought to drive out Bangladesh from Pakistan.
You are right in saying that the 6 point programme was perfectly compatible with Pakistan, although after the killing, it quite clearly was no longer relevant to Pakistan.

I don't deny Mujibur Rahman's work for Bengalis before independence, but during independence I find his no contribution other than leaving people alone under Pakistan invader army's sharp claw,who started operation searchlight, and then declaration of independence was inevitable by rebellious patriots!

The most that would be legitimate for me to say is that rebellious patriots, a large number of whom were Awami League leaders or supporters, formally declared independence.

I have personal narratives about occurrences then, that are unique, but having received those in confidence from a very senior Bengali Congress leader, a college mate of my father, they must stay out of the public record.

Now read this article, they are trying to make it a criminal offence if someone argue about declaration of independence!

Hence I think I should not push further, since it's clear that this govt will stay in power forever!

LOL.

I think it is better that we both refrain from further comment! I intend to go to B'Desh in September with a bevy of cousins, to look up my grandfather's house in Gendaria, and to visit Jagannath University, where he taught history, and Pogose School, where my father was educated. So the less I talk, the better.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Done , as much as I could! However I forgot to add that awami league should challenge her, and the edit option is no longer available!

How long edit option available, please inform me!

@Joe Shearer

Sahib, cannot be done after a short period. Only a moderator can open your post and edit it now, so you have to approach a moderator, and request him or her to add that bit. It will be difficult to add anything in Bengali or in Bengali script, however. I am the only one, AFAIK, who knows Bengali in the moderation team (I am not allowed moderating powers of editing or deleting within Bangladeshi sections).

 

[hellfire200604]

Happy independence day to y'all !

 

[oblivion]

LOL.

I think it is better that we both refrain from further comment! I intend to go to B'Desh in September with a bevy of cousins, to look up my grandfather's house in Gendaria, and to visit Jagannath University, where he taught history, and Pogose School, where my father was educated. So the less I talk, the better.

I wish you will enjoy your friends and relatives' company when visiting Bangladesh! Best of luck!

 

[Afif]

@oblivion listen buddy, I know these stuff that you are talking about. I read the book, know the controversy surrounding the declaration, etc. But sometimes it is more suitable to go with the standard story line, specially in an international forum. There is no harm in it. And really there is no need to mix today's politics (which everybody knows is shit, we have an illegal government) with 1971 events. Bottom line is BD got its independence. Ziaur Rahman certainly did contribute his share, and Mujeeb did his part by default of being the national leader, if not deliberately. This is exactly why second declaration Zia made was on his name. Because he was important. And yes, Mujeeb did not want to break Pakistan as pointed out by @Joe Shearer . But when sudden killing started on the night of 25th March, all political solutions flew out of the window.

 

[nahtanbob]

You are right in saying that the 6 point programme was perfectly compatible with Pakistan

The 6 point program was de-facto independence. West Pakistanis could have taken it as a face saving way out.


The Constitution should provide for a Federation of Pakistan in its true sense based on the Lahore Resolution, and the parliamentary form of government with supremacy of a Legislature directly elected on the basis of universal adult franchise
Sounds fair but devil is in the detail

[1] The federal government should deal with only two subjects: Defence and Foreign Affairs, and all other residual subjects should be vested in the federating states.
usually even a limited central government has more powers.

Two separate, but freely convertible currencies for the two wings should be introduced; or if this is not feasible, there should be one currency for the whole country, but effective constitutional provisions should be introduced to stop the flight of capital from East to West Pakistan. Furthermore, a separate reserve bank should be established and separate fiscal and monetary policy be adopted for East Pakistan.[1]
De-facto independence here

The power of taxation and revenue collection should be vested in the federating units and the federal centre would have no such power. The federation would be entitled to a share in the state taxes to meet its expenditures.[1]
De-facto independence here

There should be two separate accounts for the foreign exchange earnings of the two wings; the foreign exchange requirements of the federal government should be met by the two wings equally or in a ratio to be fixed; indigenous products should move free of duty between the two wings, and the constitution should empower the units to establish trade links with foreign countries.[1]
De-facto independence here

East Pakistan should have a separate military or paramilitary force, and Navy headquarters should be in East Pakistan.
De-facto independence here

 

[Afif]

The 6 point program was de-facto independence. West Pakistanis could have taken it as a face saving way out.


The Constitution should provide for a Federation of Pakistan in its true sense based on the Lahore Resolution, and the parliamentary form of government with supremacy of a Legislature directly elected on the basis of universal adult franchise
Sounds fair but devil is in the detail

[1] The federal government should deal with only two subjects: Defence and Foreign Affairs, and all other residual subjects should be vested in the federating states.
usually even a limited central government has more powers.

Two separate, but freely convertible currencies for the two wings should be introduced; or if this is not feasible, there should be one currency for the whole country, but effective constitutional provisions should be introduced to stop the flight of capital from East to West Pakistan. Furthermore, a separate reserve bank should be established and separate fiscal and monetary policy be adopted for East Pakistan.[1]
De-facto independence here

The power of taxation and revenue collection should be vested in the federating units and the federal centre would have no such power. The federation would be entitled to a share in the state taxes to meet its expenditures.[1]
De-facto independence here

There should be two separate accounts for the foreign exchange earnings of the two wings; the foreign exchange requirements of the federal government should be met by the two wings equally or in a ratio to be fixed; indigenous products should move free of duty between the two wings, and the constitution should empower the units to establish trade links with foreign countries.[1]
De-facto independence here

East Pakistan should have a separate military or paramilitary force, and Navy headquarters should be in East Pakistan.
De-facto independence here

Sounds like equal distribution to me.

 

[Joe Shearer]

[1] The federal government should deal with only two subjects: Defence and Foreign Affairs, and all other residual subjects should be vested in the federating states.
usually even a limited central government has more powers.

This, in fact, is something that I should dearly wish for my own country.

Nehru sensed the danger of implementing the federal constitution in its most developed state, given that much of the important regions and areas belonged to princely states that had many of them entertained thoughts of independence. He centralised, out of necessity.

What happened thereafter was a disaster.

New Delhi needs to be stripped down to the Ministry of Defence (dissolving the section that is the Ministry of Defence Production), the Ministry of Home Affairs (again, stripped to its essentials), the Ministry of Finance and the Ministry of External Affairs.

ALL the others should be dissolved and the civil servants employed in those sent back to their parent states.

Two separate, but freely convertible currencies for the two wings should be introduced; or if this is not feasible, there should be one currency for the whole country, but effective constitutional provisions should be introduced to stop the flight of capital from East to West Pakistan. Furthermore, a separate reserve bank should be established and separate fiscal and monetary policy be adopted for East Pakistan.[1]
De-facto independence here

Other than the first sentence, that is fanciful and unworkable, what is wrong with this point? If it had been implemented, alone, by itself, it might have saved the break-up. What the advocates of Pakistan missed was that West Pakistan was economically unviable, and kept afloat on the earnings of East Pakistan. The moment the two were separated, the war-criminal, Kissinger's gibe about a 'basket case' started unravelling, till today Bangladesh can look to run ahead of India in terms of per capital GDP and in terms of development targets.

This should have been done.

The power of taxation and revenue collection should be vested in the federating units and the federal centre would have no such power. The federation would be entitled to a share in the state taxes to meet its expenditures.[1]
De-facto independence here

On the contrary, a guarantee against moves towards independence. Look how Balochistan would be, if this were implemented, rather than the extractive methods of the country's centre. If Baloch money had been spent to some reasonable extent in Balochistan, it is difficult to see why there should be an urge towards independence there.

There should be two separate accounts for the foreign exchange earnings of the two wings; the foreign exchange requirements of the federal government should be met by the two wings equally or in a ratio to be fixed; indigenous products should move free of duty between the two wings, and the constitution should empower the units to establish trade links with foreign countries.[1]
De-facto independence here

Precisely the point made earlier about cross-subsidisation.

East Pakistan should have a separate military or paramilitary force, and Navy headquarters should be in East Pakistan.
De-facto independence here

In 1965, my father, a policeman, along with counter-parts in Assam and Tripura, kept the entire armed forces of East Pakistan at bay. The reason was not brilliant generalship. The reason was simply that both sides deployed armed policemen armed with 0.303 rifles, 2" mortars and LMGs. That is all the defence East Pakistan had. The PAF raids on Kalaikunda nearly provoked an armed response. Considering the fluctuating situation on the western front, the services felt that it would not be appropriate to escalate the fighting if it could be held to the limits that it had reached.

If that programme had been implemented, Pakistan would have stayed together.

 

[Bengal71]

Quite right. It was a legitimate demand for the devolution of power to the rightfully elected authority.


Quite clearly, as has been pointed out elsewhere, she must have recorded what she later heard from her father. I see no reason to disbelieve her.


Nothing to say on this. It is widely acknowledged that this was a declaration of independence, whether or not one was made elsewhere, earlier. That Major Zia made a specific declaration of independence over the radio at Chittagong, and claimed to do so on behalf of Mujib, is very well known.


Certainly shall, thank you for the references.


On the 8th or 9th, as I narrated, I heard the taped speech on the lawns of my father's official residence at Calcutta. It is 53 years now, and I cannot testify under oath, but I heard that phrase, I think, besides the earlier phrase demanding that power be handed over to the people's elected representatives.


Two things: as an Indian citizen, it would be wrong of me to comment on anything to do with the respective roles of various Bangladesh leaders. Second, I have all along pointed out in every post of mine that Mujib never fought to divide Pakistan, that it was Bhutto, and Yahya and his military colleagues who fought to drive out Bangladesh from Pakistan.
You are right in saying that the 6 point programme was perfectly compatible with Pakistan, although after the killing, it quite clearly was no longer relevant to Pakistan.


The most that would be legitimate for me to say is that rebellious patriots, a large number of whom were Awami League leaders or supporters, formally declared independence.

I have personal narratives about occurrences then, that are unique, but having received those in confidence from a very senior Bengali Congress leader, a college mate of my father, they must stay out of the public record.


LOL.

I think it is better that we both refrain from further comment! I intend to go to B'Desh in September with a bevy of cousins, to look up my grandfather's house in Gendaria, and to visit Jagannath University, where he taught history, and Pogose School, where my father was educated. So the less I talk, the better.

Gandaria is my father in law's house. I went to a high school right across the road from Jagannath University. Pogose school is a few minutes walk from my school and my house is 30 minutes walk from my school. Know that part of the city very well.

 

[Joe Shearer]

Gandaria is my father in law's house. I went to a high school right across the road from Jagannath University. Pogose school is a few minutes walk from my school and my house is 30 minutes walk from my school. Know that part of the city very well.

My uncles and aunts lived with my grandparents somewhere near Sadhana Ausadhalaya. Unfortunately, none of that generation could tell me where to look - beside SA, behind, opposite - so I got there on of my several visits to Dhaka, saw the playing field in front of SA and returned none the wiser.
My cousin found out from her father, my Naw Kaka, a slightly better orientation, and reports that the entire area has been re-built, so nothing that is 70 years old (actually, more) is visible.

My first visit to Dhaka was a terrible shock. Throughout my childhood, I heard my uncles and aunts speaking differently from people out in the streets in Calcutta, and learnt to keep that a secret. Then I got down at the airport, and nearly had a nervous breakdown. The whole city was speaking my language. It took time for things to sink in.

Bangladeshis will find it difficult to understand why some Bangals find it difficult to shake off our roots and learn to be whole-heartedly Indian.

When I get time next, perhaps at the end of our planned trip, if it comes off, I hope to go further south, to try and locate the village of Kulokathi, possibly near Jhalukathi, in Barisal.

When my wife took us, in an extended family group, to visit their family temple, that is a Chalukya temple, a tiny one, like a pearl, that marked one of the four villages that her people fled to, from the Kaveri delta, forced out by Kulothunga Chola, it was very painful to realise that my daughter could point to no such roots on my side.

Being descended from refugees is very painful.

 

[Bengal71]

My uncles and aunts lived with my grandparents somewhere near Sadhana Ausadhalaya. Unfortunately, none of that generation could tell me where to look - beside SA, behind, opposite - so I got there on of my several visits to Dhaka, saw the playing field in front of SA and returned none the wiser.
My cousin found out from her father, my Naw Kaka, a slightly better orientation, and reports that the entire area has been re-built, so nothing that is 70 years old (actually, more) is visible.

My first visit to Dhaka was a terrible shock. Throughout my childhood, I heard my uncles and aunts speaking differently from people out in the streets in Calcutta, and learnt to keep that a secret. Then I got down at the airport, and nearly had a nervous breakdown. The whole city was speaking my language. It took time for things to sink in.

Bangladeshis will find it difficult to understand why some Bangals find it difficult to shake off our roots and learn to be whole-heartedly Indian.

When I get time next, perhaps at the end of our planned trip, if it comes off, I hope to go further south, to try and locate the village of Kulokathi, possibly near Jhalukathi, in Barisal.

When my wife took us, in an extended family group, to visit their family temple, that is a Chalukya temple, a tiny one, like a pearl, that marked one of the four villages that her people fled to, from the Kaveri delta, forced out by Kulothunga Chola, it was very painful to realise that my daughter could point to no such roots on my side.

Being descended from refugees is very painful.

Google Maps

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Sadhana Ausadhalay is only 2 minutes walk from my father in law's house and lot of my school friends live within stone throw distance from it. I know the area since I was 11 years old.

There was not large field opposite to Sadhana, there was a field few hundred meters from it, it was more of a private property that didn't have any building on it. The other large field I can think of it the Dhupkhola Math (field) which was the official field of the East End Football club, it still exists but it is at least 300 meters away from Sadhana. I believe your parents mentioned Sadhana as the general location as well as the Dhupkhola Math as another general location.







Here is the Dhupkhola Math, it was similar to a stadium before but now the galleries have been demolished. and East End Club is no longer there.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

 

[Joe Shearer]

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

Sadhana Ausadhalay is only 2 minutes walk from my father in law's house and lot of my school friends live within stone throw distance from it. I know the area since I was 11 years old.

There was not large field opposite to Sadhana, there was a field few hundred meters from it, it was more of a private property that didn't have any building on it. The other large field I can think of it the Dhupkhola Math (field) which was the official field of the East End Football club, it still exists but it is at least 300 meters away from Sadhana. I believe your parents mentioned Sadhana as the general location as well as the Dhupkhola Math as another general location.



View attachment 29175



Here is the Dhupkhola Math, it was similar to a stadium before but now the galleries have been demolished. and East End Club is no longer there.

Google Maps

Find local businesses, view maps and get driving directions in Google Maps.

www.google.com

View attachment 29176

Thank you very much.

I am circulating your pictures to the cousins, to point out that what another of us had said about SA was true, also to show them Dhupkhola Math (I had visited the other open space, the private one with no buildings on it), to explain that there was no point in trying to locate a house that no longer existed.

Now we can focus on visiting Jagannath University (and, for two of us, Pogose School, today a college, apparently), and generally sight-seeing for a day or two.

Thank you once again.

 

[Bengal71]

Thank you very much.

I am circulating your pictures to the cousins, to point out that what another of us had said about SA was true, also to show them Dhupkhola Math (I had visited the other open space, the private one with no buildings on it), to explain that there was no point in trying to locate a house that no longer existed.

Now we can focus on visiting Jagannath University (and, for two of us, Pogose School, today a college, apparently), and generally sight-seeing for a day or two.

Thank you once again.

FYI, you can also explore the areas on Google streetview.

 

[Joe Shearer]

FYI, you can also explore the areas on Google streetview.

Will recommend, thanks.

 

[Peregrine]

The topic of Bangladesh and bengali as a people seems more complicated to me today, than it was when i was a child. When the world around me seemed much more simple and settled.
We are a people divided on artificial borders. Made by men who was born and lived in world very different from now.

I think many punjabis also might share a smilar feeling.