Danger of US giving Saudis F35s: Golden opportunity for normalization slipping away? - analysis

I still don't fully believe/trust it (I want to see the deal signed and the fighter jets delivered to KSA) but seems that the rumors were correct.

Trump basically just confirming it right now.

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I guess KSA was too much to ignore, the money too good, the prospect of KSA moving closer towards China too upsetting.

Fair enough, as long as we both gain from this, which Is the main point of deals and geopolitics of this advanced level.

Always considered Abu Ivanka as the best US president in my lifetime and most sincere on a personal level.

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1️⃣ أمريكا مش هتوافق تبيع F-35 للسعودية ( سقطت أول أمنياتهم ❌ )

2️⃣ مرحلة تبرير الصدمة - طيب… أمريكا هتبيع لهم نسخة ناقصة وضعيفة ( ⏳ )

3️⃣ مرحلة التخيلات - ولو وصلت… أكيد بيشغّلونها بتعليمات من واشنطن وتل أبيب ( ⏳ )

4️⃣مرحلة المكابرة - الـ F-35 فاشلة أصلاً… وأمريكا بتضحك على السعاودة ( ⏳ )


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:ROFLMAO:
 
Wicked Jews/Zionist crying. Let them cry.

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@Falcon29 expect to see KSA being the new scapegoat (was often the case in the past for most of the time since 1948 anyway) but it is interesting how messed up a people and how entitled many of them are.

I hope this will lead to Arabs slowly taking away the influence/power of Israel in the region and the Jewish-American community in the US. I only see things going in one direction in the future given Zionist/Israeli war crimes, actions, entitlement and how insignificant/little/ on almost every form they are compared to Arabs let alone future potential, demographics, economic size etc.

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Very happy that MbS/the current leadership are not bending to the Zionists:

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Despite enormous pressure.

Lanat on Moroccan, UAE, Bahraini etc. leadership. They gained nothing from their stupidity and this entire idiotic/failed "Abraham Accords".
 
Wicked Jews/Zionist crying. Let them cry.

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@Falcon29 expect to see KSA being the new scapegoat (was often the case in the past for most of the time since 1948 anyway) but it is interesting how messed up a people and how entitled many of them are.

I hope this will lead to Arabs slowly taking away the influence/power of Israel in the region and the Jewish-American community in the US. I only see things going in one direction in the future given Zionist/Israeli war crimes, actions, entitlement and how insignificant/little/ on almost every form they are compared to Arabs let alone future potential, demographics, economic size etc.

View attachment 160217

Very happy that MbS/the current leadership are not bending to the Zionists:

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Despite enormous pressure.

Lanat on Moroccan, UAE, Bahraini etc. leadership. They gained nothing from their stupidity and this entire idiotic/failed "Abraham Accords".

Part of me is skeptical that they said that to get UN resolution on Gaza passed and they won't actually deliver. But I think our leaders are on top of the case and demanded amendments to the resolution.

US made F-35 only to not approve real sales to willing customers in the Middle East that will actually pay for everything unlike Israel. Israel is really net negative for them.

They're delusional to believe that if we had Palestine we'd mount an invasion against Europe, lol. We could already do that if we wanted to from North Africa or through Turkey. It's ridiculous propoganda. Arabs have no interest in conquering Europe or attacking Europe. We love our Arab nations and want to preserve and improve them.
 
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Interesting, MbS received a written message from Khamenei before he left for the US earlier today. The same Iran was openly praising KSA-Pakistan defense pact that was signed not long ago and saying it wanted to join (lol).

It is a good sign that they are reaching out to KSA and learning the hard way. KSA had good/cordial ties with Iran prior to 1979 and the failed/stupid idea of exporting alien/unwanted Wilayat al-Faqih to Arab Muslims or thinking that KSA was Iran under the Shah. They had an uneducated/distorted view of the Arab world (continues today hence the failed policies) which is why their policies failed completely and to their own great detriment.

KSA has no intentions to attack Iran nor do we need Iran for anything (KSA alone has more resources - let alone other Arab nations), far bigger economy etc. We are not interested in any sights in Iran, resources, land (KSA is as large as Iran and Pakistan combined almost) etc. The hostility was mostly a one-way ticket and again Iran not understanding KSA relations with the US that date all the way to 1945. Or their misunderstanding of Israel being the main problem/Jewish American lobby and not the US as a country or people.

Anyway, it is pretty evident that the Iranian regime want to be on good terms with KSA now when they are in a weak position and in a perfect world for them, they want KSA investments and access to KSA allies in the Arab world.

I am saying to that that they should change their policy towards the Houthis/certain regional affairs in the Arab world and that trust must be rebuilt over a long period of time, in other words not overnight. Nowadays all this is empty words mostly before we see concrete steps taken.

Because otherwise, the average Saudi Arabian Muslims and Iranian Muslim (genuine Muslim with core Muslim beliefs not distorted ones or false ones) have no problems. KSA/Arabia and Southern Iran have had millennia old people to people ties. But if you are hostile then you are no different from the Zionists. Very simple.

And if Khamenei really claims to be a Sayyid (in other words a person whose paternal ancestry is Hejazi/Arabian), he should work towards having cordial ties with people/the country of that region, as a supposed leader.

@Falcon29

More Zionist crying.

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Actual top Israeli politicians reacting. I think that they are shocked about KSA's clout in the US. They fought that it was another leader/country that they could play games around and control from afar. But what I said in this thread earlier once again came to fruition as what I wrote in the thread was already demonstrated in history. This news was just another confirmation.
 
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Haha, I am thoroughly enjoying this.

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That is without everything else that will follow.
 
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Just a recap of what we are talking about and the extend of the deals signed, not only military deals.

More will probably come to light tomorrow and in the upcoming days.

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Expected Deals This Week 🇸🇦
1- 48 F-35 Stealth Fighter Jets
2- 60 F-15EX Fighter Jets
3- F-15SA Upgrade
4- Boeing 737-8 Aircraft
5- Patriot Air Defense Suite
6- Civil Nuclear Program
7- Artificial Intelligence and Technology Agreements
8- Supply of Thousands of NVIDIA Chips
9- Investments with Oracle
10- Investments with Google
11- Investments with AMD
12- AI Data Centers
13- Agreements between Aramco and Woodside
14- Agreements between Aramco and Energy
15- Agreements between Aramco and Commonwealth
16- Infrastructure Deals with AECOM
17- Infrastructure Deals with Parsons
18- Deals with National Security Agency
#CrownPrinceInAmerica


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Abdulrahman Al-Rashed
Abdulrahman Al-Rashed

Abdulrahman Al-Rashed is the former general manager of Al-Arabiya television. He is also the former editor-in-chief of Asharq Al-Awsat, and the leading Arabic weekly magazine Al-Majalla. He is also a senior columnist in the daily newspapers Al-Madina and Al-Bilad.

Monday - 17 November 2025

Importance of Saudi Crown Prince and Trump meeting​


It has become well known that US President Donald Trump enjoys a distinctive relationship with Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman. The two leaders are now meeting again in Washington.

Between Trump’s two trips to Riyadh, the first in 2017 and the second just six months ago, the world has shifted. In these eight years, major events reshaped the region and the international landscape, from rising competition with China and the war in Europe to multiple fronts igniting across the Middle East and its strategic waterways.

Given this official and personal bond between the president and the Crown Prince, expectations are high about how it will influence relations between their countries and the wider region. In Washington, I heard extensive policy discussions about what this visit could achieve and what its implications might be for peace with Israel, ties with Iran, the region’s geopolitical balance, and the long term economic, military, and nuclear partnership that Riyadh and Washington are trying to structure through the mid-twenty-first century and possibly beyond.

We see that Saudi Arabia managed its regional relationships with the goal of preventing broader collapse, starting with the Beijing-brokered agreement with Iran and continuing through Riyadh’s revival of the two-state solution. That proposal triggered a wave of regional and international support, along with expectations of collective ties with Israel down the line.

A series of steps ranging from Beijing to Tehran, Islamabad, and Damascus shows the nature of the Crown Prince’s approach: balanced relations, de-escalation, and preparing the region for a different phase.

Trump has articulated a parallel vision. In his address to Israel’s Knesset, he said Israel had achieved all it could through military force and that the time had come to channel its strength toward peace.

Another major file is Saudi Arabia’s military buildout. One of the important issues on the Washington agenda is creating a counterbalancing force that can reinforce a regional peace that now looks more possible than at any time in recent memory, despite the remaining pockets of conflict.

The project the Crown Prince has personally championed is economic transformation, not war or political rivalry. His program is built around moving his country from the present to the future. The sweeping changes implemented inside Saudi Arabia are precisely what caught Trump’s attention. Trump himself is an unconventional figure with a modernization project of his own. He has cast himself as a reforming president seeking major, even historic, changes in the United States and its global posture.

The Crown Prince and the president are capable of working together whenever possible to push the region toward greater stability. When Trump launched his mediation to halt the Gaza war, he said he wanted to move from simply stopping hostilities to ending the conflict altogether.

Trump has already proven himself by navigating two crises. The first emerged under former President Barack Obama with the Iran nuclear deal, which triggered serious instability. During his first term, Trump managed to dismantle the deal and contain Iran’s activity. The second crisis was the October 7 attacks. Though they occurred before his second term began, Trump was determined once in office to prevent regional escalation. He stopped the war between Iran and Israel, intervened to halt the Gaza war, previously stopped the Lebanese front from exploding, and moved quickly to absorb the changes within the Syrian regime.

Saudi-US relations are one of the central pillars of this visit. Today, those ties are in one of their strongest and most prosperous moments.

Bilaterally, the two sides are working through major files: the civilian nuclear energy project, the defense pact and advanced arms deals, and hundreds of economic agreements and initiatives that receive surprisingly little media attention despite their significance.

Although Riyadh’s strategic partnership with Washington is solid, and although the Crown Prince’s relationship with the president is exceptional, Saudi Arabia has continued to maintain broad interests with other major economic and political players instead of tying itself exclusively to one side. This balanced approach does not diminish the special connection with Washington, which has flourished further under Trump. Today’s moment resembles the late stages of World War II, a period when global relations were being reshaped. In 1945, President Franklin D. Roosevelt requested a meeting with King Abdulaziz, leading to the famous USS Quincy summit that laid the foundation for a pivotal, long-lasting era in bilateral relations under a changing world order.

Trump’s second-term foreign policy and his broader strategic vision are becoming clearer and more assertive amid intense rivalry among global powers. His administration is aligning itself with successful economic powers, not just military ones. Saudi Arabia’s importance lies in its central role in the region and the Islamic world, its influence on global energy security, and its emergence as a rising economic force within the G20. It is also a major investment partner for the United States. It is no exaggeration to say that strong Saudi-US relations have a profound impact on regional stability and prosperity.


Hopefully brother @The SC can take over yesterday during and after the actual meeting, as I will have a full schedule tomorrow so not able to cover much here live when it occurs or right afterwards.

Really curious about the details of the deals, also the non-military aspects which are as important if not more important than the F-35.
 
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Very strategic investment. Good for them. If you can buy him, do it.
 
Lets get this straight once and for all.... the whole national security threat of selling F-35's to SA by Chinese spies is an Israeli made up story. There is no threat there's nothing the chinese can gain that they already have by hacking into US servers which they got non-classified schematics of the F-35 which is why the J-35 resembles the F-35.

A few years ago Saudi Arabia at one time flew the most advanced F-15 more advanced than what the US was flying during that time. UAE at one point had the most advanced F-16 (Block 60) in the world. This is a nothing burger SA F-35's will have same restrictions as any other nation flying US made fighters and yes if SA decided to go nuts and launch unprovoked air strikes using F-35's US won't be able to stop SA from using the F-35 since there is no kill switch. Doesn't work that way.
 
Lets get this straight once and for all.... the whole national security threat of selling F-35's to SA by Chinese spies is an Israeli made up story. There is no threat there's nothing the chinese can gain that they already have by hacking into US servers which they got non-classified schematics of the F-35 which is why the J-35 resembles the F-35.

A few years ago Saudi Arabia at one time flew the most advanced F-15 more advanced than what the US was flying during that time. UAE at one point had the most advanced F-16 (Block 60) in the world. This is a nothing burger SA F-35's will have same restrictions as any other nation flying US made fighters and yes if SA decided to go nuts and launch unprovoked air strikes using F-35's US won't be able to stop SA from using the F-35 since there is no kill switch. Doesn't work that way.

Spot on.

Correct me if I am not wrong, and with all due respect to our Chinese friends, I think that the Chinese J-35 is already based on the US F-35 (core concepts) which were hacked/stolen by the very same Chinese. Something they (at one time) had perfected across numerous sectors. Obviously they have evolved since but the similarly did not come out of the blue. Not sure where KSA fits into this, lol. There is no Chinese military presence in KSA and trust me, nothing in KSA occurs without the leadership knowing. Far more than in the US itself. Supposed imaginary Chinese spies would be spotted from miles away.

Israelis/American-Jews are just frustrated that times are changing and they have a very hard time accepting that. They will eventually as they have no other choice.

Eventually they will also realize that there is no other solution to their own self-created mess than a sensible two-state solution or a one-state solution with equal rights for everybody.

EDIT: Sorry, actually what I wrote is wrong. There is a Chinese military presence in KSA supposedly but it is related to the Saudi Arabian Strategic Missile Force and to the local Saudi Arabian ballistic missile program.


Words of our Chinese friend, not mine. I was not aware of this below in such detail.

Public information:
In the late 1980s, China exported a batch of DF-3 ballistic missiles to Saudi Arabia. Since Saudi Arabia lacked the necessary capabilities at the time, China's Second Artillery Corps (the predecessor of the PLARF) formed a unit and entered Saudi Arabia under the name "Golden Wheel Project Company." They helped Saudi Arabia build military bases for the storage, command, deployment, and launch of DF-3 ballistic missiles, while also training personnel.
==========================================
It stands to reason that after completing their mission, this unit would return to China and disband.

But, this was not the case.

In 2016, at a meeting held by a Chinese official, the identity of a PLA major general attending the meeting was prominently listed as "Commander of the Golden Wheel Project Command Center."

In the PLA's latest organizational structure, this organization still exists and is directly under the PLARF headquarters. As for what they are doing, no one knows. Neither Chinese nor Saudi agencies with knowledge of the matter will reveal any information.
But they would have no direct access to the F-35 and the Chinese do not need access to F-35 tech today. Pretty sure South Korea and Japan next door would be much more likely areas for such spying and much more easier to blend in as well if this was really a thing.

And pretty rich coming from the Israelis themselves, see my post 56 in this thread that talks about how many times Israel has told secret US tech/secrets to USSR, Russia and the VERY SAME CHINA THEY WARN ABOUT, lol.

It is amazing how many people blindly believe those Israeli Twitter users online (half are probably bots anyway) but 1 or 2 too many.
 
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:ROFLMAO:

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Trump just confirmed that KSA's F-35 will not be downgraded in any way as some idiotic rumors (false rumors) were claiming. As expected given all prior strategic US purchases that KSA made.

This Turkish guy picked it up fairly quickly:

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So many dreams are being shattered across the board. Imagine the situation in 2 days time when all final agreements (most of them) are made pubic? The itch will be tremendous.

Great press conference overall.

As a side note Musk is going to attend the KSA-USA dinner as will C. Ronaldo of all people.:) Some of my sources are saying that we can expect Saudi Arabian Space Agency and Musk/US to sign some interesting deals.

Back in a few hours.
 
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Trump: The F-35 fighters that we will sell to Saudi Arabia are the best and are the same ones that we sell to Israel.

Both countries will get the best from us.

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Saudi reporter: We see you in the region as a peacemaker, and I asked the Crown Prince in Riyadh how he sleeps at night because of his busy schedule. We wonder, what about your schedule?
Trump: "He doesn't sleep. I don't sleep. We talk at night. I can call him almost anytime. We had a president [Biden] who sleeps all the time, broke all the records, he sleeps in the morning, at night, at the beach."

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Danger of US giving Saudis F35s: Golden opportunity for normalization slipping away? - analysis​

The Trump administration might sell F-35s to Saudi Arabia without Riyadh agreeing to recognise Jerusalem, in a move that could shake up the Middle East.​

A US Marine Corps F-35 takes off from the former Roosevelt Roads Naval Station airport in Ceiba, Puerto Rico, November 3, 2025.
A US Marine Corps F-35 takes off from the former Roosevelt Roads Naval Station airport in Ceiba, Puerto Rico, November 3, 2025.(photo credit: REUTERS/RICARDO ARDUENGO)ByYONAH JEREMY BOBNOVEMBER 5, 2025 18:14Updated: NOVEMBER 6, 2025 10:01
Two data points could signal a geopolitical and security earthquake in the Middle East.

The Pentagon has given a preliminary nod to selling F-35s to Saudi Arabia, and the Trump administration may carry out this deal without conditioning it on normalization between Riyadh and Jerusalem.

How are these two points issues, and why are they potential game-changers?

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Until now, only democracies have been sold the F-35.

Mostly the US, European countries, Japan, and South Korea.

Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman speaks with U.S. President Donald Trump on the day of the Saudi-U.S. Investment Forum, in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, May 13, 2025. (credit: REUTERS/BRIAN SNYDER)
Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed Bin Salman speaks with U.S. President Donald Trump on the day of the Saudi-U.S. Investment Forum, in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia, May 13, 2025. (credit: REUTERS/BRIAN SNYDER)No country with even a hint of military hostility to Israel or any potential ally of Iran has been sold the aircraft.

When Turkey purchased Russia’s S-400 anti-aircraft missile system, the US kicked them out of the F-35 potential buyers program.

F-35 gave Israel a military edge

The F-35 is the world’s premier aircraft with stealth capabilities that can run circles around most countries’ air defenses.
Most importantly, it allows Israel to run circles around Iran, Syria, Hezbollah, the Houthis, and Hamas’s air defenses.

It is the largest reason why the Jewish state succeeded at setting back the Islamic Republic’s nuclear program by two years and achieved another unprecedented achievement against the ayatollahs.


It is the tip of the spear for Israel’s maintaining of its “qualitative advantage” over its adversaries, though they far outnumber the Jewish state’s population and surround Israel on several fronts.

The Saudis, in general, are much closer to the US and Europe than to Eastern countries.

They are also part of an unspoken and unofficial Middle East security alliance with Israel and other Sunni countries against Tehran.

But they have also flirted with alliances with Russia and China, and have signed deals with Iran, which, however unlikely, could also have led to alliances.


If Riyadh gets the F-35 and shares the technology with Russia, China, or Iran, Israel’s qualitative edge over Tehran could be compromised, and it could also face other issues with Beijing and Moscow, which currently have a deep respect for Israel’s military.

This came up in 2020 when the US almost sold the F-35 to the UAE at the height of the wave of the Abraham Accords.

At the time, it seemed like the Israeli political echelon was reluctantly not publicly objecting, but top defense officials were very concerned about the move and breathed a sigh of relief when it fell through due to a variety of other issues.


But one of the reasons that Israel was somewhat ready to swallow the UAE receiving the F-35 was that the UAE had crossed the Rubicon and normalized ties with Jerusalem.

In other words, Israel got a major strategic win, and so it was willing to keep its mouth shut about a potential strategic problem.

Further, the very fact that the UAE normalized relations with Israel in some ways made it less likely, though not impossible, that it would pass on the sensitive F-35 technology to Israeli adversaries.

Here, the Trump administration may finalize the sale to the Saudis without any commitment to normalization.


Israeli supporters would hope that Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu will find the perfect mix of negotiations in which his ending the war and giving Sunni Arab countries a major hand in Gaza will help get Trump to insist on Jerusalem-Riyadh normalization as part of the price for the F-35 deal, if such a deal happens.

This had always been the expectation before October 7.

But Netanyahu has become even more resistant to any concessions toward the Palestinians, even those in the West Bank not involved in the invasion, following the war, and the Saudis are as adamant as ever that they cannot normalize and be seen as deserting the Palestinians completely.

This is why, with no deal yet on how the Saudis, the UAE, Egypt, the Palestinian Authority, former British prime minister Tony Blair, and others will eventually manage Gaza, and at the same time, with news of the Pentagon moving forward on an F-35 deal with the Saudis, Israeli defense observers would be very concerned.

The next steps on the F-35 issue and Saudi normalization will be pivotal.

Giving the F-35 to the Saudis could create serious risks to Israeli security in the future.

But giving the F-35 to Riyadh with Israel missing its chance at normalization, or at least losing the issue as leverage, would be far worse.

Israel could augment its qualitative military superiority for air-to-air battle by acquiring the US-made F-22 fighter jet, and it could try to get into the bidding for the F-47, which is due to start replacing the F-22 sometime in 2028.

There was a moment in 2020 when the US was considering selling the F-35 to the UAE, where it considered selling the F-22 to Israel as compensation, but the idea never advanced further.

This idea could be explored again if the Saudis do acquire the F-35, but it would still be a poor substitute for achieving normalization or for keeping Israel as the only Middle Eastern country with fifth-generation aircraft.
those F-35s will be a civilian version , lacking all the noteable goodies that make them what they are.. just like the Iraqi or Egyptian F-16s.,.. Israel has to fear about them as much as it fears the Qatari Rafales.
 
those F-35s will be a civilian version , lacking all the noteable goodies that make them what they are.. just like the Iraqi or Egyptian F-16s.,.. Israel has to fear about them as much as it fears the Qatari Rafales.
Try harder. Trump just confirmed something entirely differently. I know it hurts but writing nonsense will not change the ground reality.

Looks like the list that I published already in this thread, seems to be pretty accurate given the information that is leaking out. Much more to come.

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Expected Deals This Week 🇸🇦
1- 48 F-35 Stealth Fighter Jets
2- 60 F-15EX Fighter Jets
3- F-15SA Upgrade
4- Boeing 737-8 Aircraft
5- Patriot Air Defense Suite
6- Civil Nuclear Program
7- Artificial Intelligence and Technology Agreements
8- Supply of Thousands of NVIDIA Chips
9- Investments with Oracle
10- Investments with Google
11- Investments with AMD
12- AI Data Centers
13- Agreements between Aramco and Woodside
14- Agreements between Aramco and Energy
15- Agreements between Aramco and Commonwealth
16- Infrastructure Deals with AECOM
17- Infrastructure Deals with Parsons
18- Deals with National Security Agency
#CrownPrinceInAmerica

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Urgent — Bloomberg| The number of expected approved chips will be in the thousands, and perhaps tens of thousands, without specifying an exact number.

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Urgent — Bloomberg| America will sell advanced chips to Saudi Arabia's Humain company.

The Saudi Arabian F-35SA will be the Block 4 (TR-3) model by all accounts.


Pretty sure that aside from the standard hardened hangars in KSA, some F-35SA could be stored (at times at least) in the many mountainous/underground military bases across all of KSA.

Conclusion of the first 2-3 hour long meeting.

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Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman leaves the White House after concluding his meeting with President Trump.His Royal Highness will return to the White House again in a few hours to attend the dinner banquet hosted by President Trump in his honor.
 
Next page:

Looks like the list that I published already in this thread, seems to be pretty accurate given the information that is leaking out. Much more to come.

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Expected Deals This Week 🇸🇦
1- 48 F-35 Stealth Fighter Jets
2- 60 F-15EX Fighter Jets
3- F-15SA Upgrade
4- Boeing 737-8 Aircraft
5- Patriot Air Defense Suite
6- Civil Nuclear Program
7- Artificial Intelligence and Technology Agreements
8- Supply of Thousands of NVIDIA Chips
9- Investments with Oracle
10- Investments with Google
11- Investments with AMD
12- AI Data Centers
13- Agreements between Aramco and Woodside
14- Agreements between Aramco and Energy
15- Agreements between Aramco and Commonwealth
16- Infrastructure Deals with AECOM
17- Infrastructure Deals with Parsons
18- Deals with National Security Agency
#CrownPrinceInAmerica

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Urgent — Bloomberg| The number of expected approved chips will be in the thousands, and perhaps tens of thousands, without specifying an exact number.

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Urgent — Bloomberg| America will sell advanced chips to Saudi Arabia's Humain company.

The Saudi Arabian F-35SA will be the Block 4 (TR-3) model by all accounts.


Pretty sure that aside from the standard hardened hangars in KSA, some F-35SA could be stored (at times at least) in the many mountainous/underground military bases across all of KSA.

Conclusion of the first 2-3 hour long meeting.

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Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman leaves the White House after concluding his meeting with President Trump.His Royal Highness will return to the White House again in a few hours to attend the dinner banquet hosted by President Trump in his honor.

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