Discussion: Assassination of Ismail Haniyeh in Tehran


"He added that enemies are well aware that Iran is not dependent on any country and is in possession of equipment completely designed and manufactured by Iranian experts"


Like it was said here. GCC all expensive military hardware (fighter jets, antimissile systems and so on) is worthless in a war against the West, because the west is the manufacturer and they must have put a thousand electronic backdoors in it to hack it remotely if they want.

But that just can't be done in Iranian systems, because it's made in iran.

So it's more likely a USA backstabbing against GCC than a USA war against Iran.
They seem to have a much better air defence than the likes of Pak, I dont know however how effective they will be against F15s/16s/35s and stand off munition. If they are variants of Russian S300s, then im pretty sure Israel has a good idea how to counter those. I dont think we know enough about how Irans new SAMs are better or different in what they can do as they havnt been properly tested yet.
 

"He added that enemies are well aware that Iran is not dependent on any country and is in possession of equipment completely designed and manufactured by Iranian experts"


Like it was said here. GCC all expensive military hardware (fighter jets, antimissile systems and so on) is worthless in a war against the West, because the west is the manufacturer and they must have put a thousand electronic backdoors in it to hack it remotely if they want.

But that just can't be done in Iranian systems, because it's made in iran.

So it's more likely a USA backstabbing against GCC than a USA war against Iran.
Everybody already knows this. Here the poor peepal think if they got an F-15, they got an edge over Iran...... :p.......The biggest problem with that narrative is that they have a 100 F-15's which are practically junk and will all get shot down in a week of intense combat. Whereas Iran has a million missiles and drones, and even if 10% of those get thru, its all over no?

Poor peepal fram de thurrd whulld brah. God help them. :p
 
Everybody already knows this. Here the poor peepal think if they got an F-15, they got an edge over Iran...... :p.......The biggest problem with that narrative is that they have a 100 F-15's which are practically junk and will all get shot down in a week of intense combat. Whereas Iran has a million missiles and drones, and even if 10% of those get thru, its all over no?

Poor peepal fram de thurrd whulld brah. God help them. :p

Why F15 is a junk. Please enlighten us Pendu chicha.
 
Everybody already knows this. Here the poor peepal think if they got an F-15, they got an edge over Iran...... :p.......The biggest problem with that narrative is that they have a 100 F-15's which are practically junk and will all get shot down in a week of intense combat. Whereas Iran has a million missiles and drones, and even if 10% of those get thru, its all over no?

Poor peepal fram de thurrd whulld brah. God help them. :p
It’s not a junk plane. It will dominate the airs of the battlefields. The stealthier fighters will downgrade the AD and then the 15s and 16s will run amok.

But this all depends on a surprised attack. If the Iranians and their allies strike first, it would need to be comprehensive to take out all much of the opponents airbases, carriers, and other places where air attacks can take place.

The Iranians have shown incompetency over and over again to match a robust, persistent enemy.
 
While not fully aware of Exploits of Mr Haniyeh

I do feel international law was broken , because Iran's Sovereignty was challenged by an unprovoked Terrorist /Assassination plot
As a Guest of Iranian Nation , was killed on it's soil

It is against the Norms of society to kill a Honorable delegate on a Mission for Peace (Diplomatic mission) , all Diplomats are protected by international Law

You just don't assassinate other country's Diplomat on international visit
 
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On a strictly hypothetical scenario , if Iran had the Nuclear weapon
3 good one should end the issue - of course there will tremendous loss of life which as all humans we don't want no one wants that

In a Hypothetical way, This is typically the yield of largest US nukcs
Obviously Iran would not have American nukes on hand but they could make their own yes it is possible

Now it is also possible the Israel's own Nukes will blow up accidents happen who knows

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Note: The Russian TSAR bomb
I think much more bigger you only need 1 or 2 of those to clear out all of Israel , however it is so big that it will also take out other holy places


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Russia have been quite , responsible for not using the Big Tsar bomb inside Ukraine they could end the war anytime they want

The Tsar Bomb is quite powerful it is really the End of Time Weapon


It would take usual 75-80 years before radiation effect would go away , it would be a draw back
 
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The ideal outcome is of course 2 States , Palestine / Israel

And none of this Genocide stuff or Assassination

In an idealistic world
 
F-15's which are practically junk and will all get shot down in a week of intense combat.
F-15 is junk?? Entire fleet getting shot down in a week? It's a superior aircraft compared to Su35s and even Su35s haven't faced this in 2+ years of intense war.
 
Israel will provoke again. Some day we might wake up and hear the news ‘Explosion at Iranian nuclear facility’.

Hopefully Iran and the coalition retaliate before that can happen.
 
The ideal outcome is of course 2 States , Palestine / Israel

And none of this Genocide stuff or Assassination

In an idealistic world
Iran position.
The ideal solution is one country that everybody live with each other.
76 year ago when un decided to partition Palestine Iran was against it and iran which was part of the countries that was tasked to decide the fate of Palestine didn't agree with the majority report that favored partitioning and with 2 other country presented a minority report to un . When un decided to partition Palestine Iran representative in un stated by today decision un brought 100 year of war and bloodshed into the region.

And still today Iran stay with that assessment and we belive the only solution is one state solution and two state solution only bring more problem .
 
I don't need to learn because I know the difference. Still, detecting fighters at ranges of 900-2,000 km is highly speculative and depends on several factors. It is simply impossible for an OTH radar to detect a LO/VLO fighter flying at medium altitude at a range of 800 km, even if it had an antenna as high as 50 meters. As I said, detecting aircraft can be done at such great ranges, but only depending on the aircraft type, RCS and its altitude.

The quadrant of greatest interest is the aircraft's forward RCS. As a rule, when we talk about an aircraft's RCS, we are referring to the RCS in the X-band of its forward quadrant. The rear RCS is the second most important and is usually slightly higher than the forward RCS. A side, top or bottom view of the aircraft will usually show a much higher RCS than the front quadrant. The RCS varies with the aircraft's viewing angle and the frequency of the radar signal; normally the lower the radar frequency, the higher the RCS. The frequency band of greatest concern is the band in which fire control radars (radars capable of providing a firing solution for missiles) operate, especially the X-band (8-12GHz), which is the band most used by SAMs and fighter aircraft.

Regarding the difference between an F-22 and an F-35, in 2014, General Hostage, head of Air Combat Command, said: “The radar cross section of the F-35 is much smaller than the F-22, but that does not mean that the F-35 is necessarily superior to the F-22 when we go to war.” For those wondering about the value of the opinion of a general sitting behind a desk, know that Hostage flew the F-22, as well as most models of the F-15 and F-16. Hostage’s statements caused some stir, contradicting independent analysis and conventional wisdom on low-observability techniques that pointed to the F-22 as a stealthier aircraft. But according to Lt. Gen. Christopher C. Bogdan: “I would say that General Hostage was accurate in his statement about the stealth level of the F-35.” He also scoffed at the notion that anyone can tell how stealthy an aircraft is just by looking at it.

Well, I'm not going to post comments from someone who's flown both fighters here. The F-22 has a more disciplined surface than the F-35, meaning it has fewer protrusions along the fuselage, especially on the underside. The mitigating factor is that the F-35’s bulges follow the stealth shape rule (a gentle curvature) and have very little effect on the RCS in the forward aspect, since the bulges represent a fraction of the fuselage cross-section relative to the forward aspect. The F-22’s exhaust nozzle also uses a more stealthy design. Two angled wedge-shaped “petals” form a 2D nozzle with only two large edges each. Meanwhile, the F-35 uses an axisymmetric nozzle with several small “petals” with angled edges that control the reflection direction a little less, and also use smaller edges with greater potential for interaction with waves. As with the fuselage bulges, the mitigating factor is that the nozzle has little effect on the forward RCS.

The F-22 uses a traditional splitter plate air intake to divert the boundary layer away from the engine inlet, thus creating an inappropriate space between the air intake and the fuselage in terms of stealth; the F-35 uses diverterless-supersonic inlets (DSI), which are essentially more stealthy and eliminate complex and heavy mechanical systems. The DSI inlet has a large bulge in the fuselage with a gentle curvature that can divert turbulent air from the boundary layer. The bulge also deflects radar waves by obeying well-defined shape criteria, further reducing the field of view to the engine and absorbing radar waves with a thick layer of RAM. In the rear aspect, the great innovation in the F-35 was the adoption of an afterburner system that acts as a true blocker in the exhaust duct to mask the turbine, which, like the engine fan in the front aspect, is a large source of radar reflection, in addition to IR emission. The F-22 also has a “stealth” afterburner system, but without the masking capabilities of the F-35 system.

Manufacturing tolerance (the limit of permissible inaccuracy for a part) is one of the key factors in building a stealth aircraft. The F-22, for example, had manufacturing tolerances of 1/10,000th of an inch. The F-35 production line is orders of magnitude more precise than the F-22, which was built using comparatively dated manufacturing techniques. The F-35 team is employing advanced assembly methods and high-precision manufacturing machines; new milling machines with precision less than the width of a human hair ensure that the external shape of the F-35 is accurate and meets stealth requirements. Reducing or nearly eliminating gaps between structural parts is highly desirable to achieve stealth characteristics in an aircraft. In fact, one of the reasons the F-35 uses fewer stealth coatings and gap fillers is due to the extremely tight manufacturing tolerances. The more precise the fuselage assembly, the easier it is for the current induced by an illuminating radar to travel through the skin of the aircraft. This induced current, when it encounters any discontinuity, radiates radar waves back to the illuminating radar.

Another area where the F-35 has advanced over the F-22 is in stealth materials. Everything that was observed during the F-22 operations served to improve the materials for the F-35. The F-35 is made of composite material in approximately 42% of its weight, compared to 22% in the F-22 and 2% in the F-16. The F-35 contains a layer of fiber mat (fibermat) cured directly on the fuselage that eliminates the layer of “conductive paint” found in the F-22, “completely eliminating” this dangerous and difficult-to-apply substance. Conductive paint uses silver in its composition to provide conductivity to the fuselage and make it opaque to radar waves so that they do not penetrate the fuselage and reflect off the aircraft's internal components. While conductive paint is relatively sensitive to pressure and chemicals such as fuel and oil, the F-35's fiber carpet is only affected if the fuselage is actually damaged.

In addition to several other complementary factors, the result, clearly, is that the F-35's stealth system is an order of magnitude reduction in maintenance compared to all other stealth systems. Not surprisingly, in fiscal year 2020, the F-35A was the USAF's most mission-capable fighter aircraft, achieving 76.07% availability versus 51.98% for the F-22, even surpassing legacy aircraft such as the F-16 and F-15.

This would definitely increase the RCS and there is no point in arguing about that. But again, even at this point, an OTH radar is still unlikely to detect a VLO fighter at ranges of 900-2,000 km.

No. What I am claiming is the impossibility of an OTH radar detecting a VLO fighter at ranges of 900-2,000 km. This is the unrealistic scenario of the debate here.
thanks for the copy pasta.

But if you try to make the claim F-35 has better stealth characteristics than F-22 you will be laughed out of the room.

Yes F-35 has SOME improvements (particularly electronics based) especially on early F-22 models (that are now being retired), but that is to be expected considering F-22 developed started in the 90’s. Compare the price of RAM in 1995 to 2005.

But hands down Congress and the military has admitted that shutting down F-22 production line was a bonehead move back in the 2000’s to save on cost when it turned out it was by far the better fighter jet and by now could have been on a much more modern block of upgrades (compare 1980 F-16 to today for example) and would blow F-35 out of the water any given day of the week.

Yes F-35 maintenance is better than the abysmal F-22, to be expected in many aspects. But that’s like saying NVDA 4090 has better architecture than 3090. To be expected.

But by no means is F-35 close to rivaling an F-22 in the field of VLO. There is a reason why Congress never sold that plane to another country including its beloved Israel.

So I won’t debate that topic under any terms. Anyone trying to bring that argument is a fanboy.
I had to be away for 10 days due to family issues.

I was initially going to respond to each argument, but I'm in a bit of a hurry, especially given the flow of information I'm going to have to read to get up to speed, and I still feel like I'm getting off topic here.

We'll talk about that in more detail later.
 
F-15 is junk?? Entire fleet getting shot down in a week? It's a superior aircraft compared to Su35s and even Su35s haven't faced this in 2+ years of intense war.
As su-35 fell victim to Ukraine air defence , f-15 are also become victim of air defence
 
It’s not a junk plane. It will dominate the airs of the battlefields. The stealthier fighters will downgrade the AD and then the 15s and 16s will run amok.

But this all depends on a surprised attack. If the Iranians and their allies strike first, it would need to be comprehensive to take out all much of the opponents airbases, carriers, and other places where air attacks can take place.

The Iranians have shown incompetency over and over again to match a robust, persistent enemy.
Oh bhai, with the introduction of the 358 LM/ SAM, the coalition largely relied on drones to do what aircraft were doing. 101 total coalition types destroyed over Yemen. The coalition refused to send warplanes over Yemen in the last two years of the war as the Hoosi air defenses got fairly dense:

 

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