Egyptian Air Defense

[The SC]

Mossad media publishes satellite images and says that Sisi has established underground military bases in preparation for war with Israel

 

[GoMig-21]

Apparently Egypt started making the PL-15 BVR missile locally in cooperation with China!!!

Anyone have access to the full article? @Sami_1 ?

 

[The SC]

Anyone have access to the full article? @Sami_1 ?

View attachment 39742

I found this..interesting article!

https://www.armyrecognition.com/new...uring-process-of-its-pl-15-air-to-air-missile


But nothing on Egypt manufacturing it yet..

 

[GoMig-21]

I found this..interesting article!

https://www.armyrecognition.com/new...uring-process-of-its-pl-15-air-to-air-missile


But nothing on Egypt manufacturing it yet..

Definitely interesting. If there is any truth about its production presence in Egypt, I would've guessed the more compatible launching platform would've been the MiG-29M/M2 considering Russo/Chinese technology matching methods etc. But the radar capabilities on the 29 might not give a missile with such a range it's optimal performance capability, which then makes much more sense for it to be the Rafale with its RBE2 AESA radar. Question then obviously becomes France's willingness to allow the integration. But with all the news of local Rafale parts manufacturing and eventually the assembly line itself, that could very well be a possibility. That would be the connection right there and would take the French off the hook for not supplying the Meteor. Win -win for everyone.

 

[The SC]

Definitely interesting. If there is any truth about its production presence in Egypt, I would've guessed the more compatible launching platform would've been the MiG-29M/M2 considering Russo/Chinese technology matching methods etc. But the radar capabilities on the 29 might not give a missile with such a range it's optimal performance capability, which then makes much more sense for it to be the Rafale with its RBE2 AESA radar. Question then obviously becomes France's willingness to allow the integration. But with all the news of local Rafale parts manufacturing and eventually the assembly line itself, that could very well be a possibility. That would be the connection right there and would take the French off the hook for not supplying the Meteor. Win -win for everyone.

We should always remember that Chinese Adaptor for air to air missiles..

 

[Ali_Baba]

Anyone have access to the full article? @Sami_1 ?

View attachment 39742

A) No way France will allow for the integration of the PL15 on Rafales.
B) Does such an article suggest problems in procuring the meteor ?

I do not understand Egypts procurement programmes to be honest as none of them seem to seriously address the lack of BVR capabilities in the EAF. It is an issue that the J10CE addresses nicely imho as Egypt can purchase the platform in "bulk" ...

What is Egypts retirement plans for the F16s btw? It can't be Rafale - that is a 2 engine heavy beast. What is Egypt looking at for the light end of the single engine requirements? They must have some game plan to retire the early bird F16s by now?

 

[Ali_Baba]

We should always remember that Chinese Adaptor for air to air missiles..

Since we have seen Ukranian Su-27s with ipads operating HARMs and other western missiles, anything is possible i guess. Modern computing CPU technolofgy is now sooo damn powerful that you can run entire aircraft software suites in Virtual machines/Hpervisors on Tablets ..... Software emulators have come on along way and have changed the game as far as integration of different systems goes now, as have standardised military "buses" like MIL-STF-1553 and its derivatives with optical technology.

 

[Ali_Baba]

Urgent | Egyptian fighter jets reach the border after the occupation army warned the residents of Rafah to evacuate the city! Has zero hour arrived?

Shame it is not available in english !!

 

[Readerdefence]

If Egypt is making the missile it will use its own software to integrate it on any fighter plane it wants..

Hi,
When will they start making these missiles, another thing is what’s the Chinese catch letting Egypt make these missiles, I believe may be assembling of them, if we go by virtue of EAF USE OF these missiles with their own software im pretty sure Egypt can’t export these to other countries
If you have anymore info about my Qs, please reply with something parallel to USA made missiles as they are not letting anyone even to assemble or make the export quality one
and mig29 is compatible with EC2, if yes what link are they using for Russian or fighters
If possible to answer
Thank you

 

[GoMig-21]

A) No way France will allow for the integration of the PL15 on Rafales.

The only way they might allow it is if they think it gets them off the hook with not supplying the Meteor. EAF is insisting on the Meteor with not only the next batch of 30 Rafales, but the integration of the first 24 also as well as being the main obstacle for the procurement of the 24 Eurofighter Typhoons from Italy. What seems to be the EAF's leverage in negotiating these large purchases is the missile. It also might be tied in with the UAE's & Saudiya's interest in purchasing the aircraft, being that Egypt was the initial buyer of the Rafale and the impetus of the ensuing explosive export demand & success of the Rafale for Dassault. They, along with Italy and the EFT consortium might be feeling the pressure of all that by the EAF that they might just be willing to allow the PL-15E to be integrated provided they stick to their guns on the Meteor so that they have plausible deniability against the zionist & whomever else. They could essentially be killing 2 birds with one stone; giving the EAF its ultimate BVR need as well as telling the zionist "hey, we didn't supply them the Meteor and they're free to integrate whatever they want on their own Rafales". You never know.

Hopefully we'll soon find out once the new Rafales start showing up in a few months from now. If they're armed with Meteors then that's the end of that. Not the PL-15E in Egypt, but on the Rafale. If they're not armed with Meteors, then that scenario might be possible including with the EFTs. We shall see.

B) Does such an article suggest problems in procuring the meteor ?

No idea. That's why I'm trying to get someone who might have bought it to post the full article so we can see the details.

Tactical Report is usually spot on from what I've seen. I haven't seen them botch anything to make them lose credibility that I'm aware of, have you?

I do not understand Egypts procurement programmes to be honest as none of them seem to seriously address the lack of BVR capabilities in the EAF. It is an issue that the J10CE addresses nicely imho as Egypt can purchase the platform in "bulk" ...

I know this is a common thought and perception about the EAF, but I'm really curious why it's such a mystery to some, that the EAF would choose the Rafale or even have interest in the Eurofighter Typhoon instead of the J-10C. The answer is simply in 3-fold:
1) The Rafale is a friggin beast of a fighter in every conceivable parameter except stealth, and even in that it has certain very respectable elements. It's arguably one of the best 4+ generation fighters available on the market AND is PROVEN to be so. That last aspect is hugely important people tend to gloss over that fact.

2) It was part of a much larger deal to procure French state of the art weaponry including naval assets with ToT. The 2 Mistral LHD helicopter carriers, the FREMM frigate and the 4 Gowind corvettes of which 3 were built in Alexandria. We all know large military contracts involve wider scale procurements for greater value than single efforts.

3) The EAF seems to consider the BVR aspect as a necessary element of a modern fighter jet procurement, but they don't consider it an end-all be-all. Especially when researching the Rafale's MICA missiles, one can find out how their capabilities are at the upper end of versatile short-to-medium range missiles and that historical evidence suggests that the ranges of most aerial engagements are well within the range of the MICA missiles. These are important factors that all militaries take into consideration and don't go just by one factor alone, unlike many of "us" here on this forum who seem to think that the only thing that makes a fighter jet an excellent fighter jet is only having a "long range" missile. It certainly isn't and that's where the thinking comes from.

At the same time, there's a major push to get the Meteor -- or substitute -- so it's not a lost cause.

I hope that helps make it more understandable as to the choices made.

And let's not forget, too, that the EAF has EXTENSIVE experience with Chinese hardware and is quite familiar with much of the inner details & dealings. We've had a huge assembly contracts with China for the J-6 & F-7 among other military equipment and it was even the Chinese who the EAF allowed to inspect an F-16 in Cairo which ended up getting us in trouble with the US AND making the acquisition of the AIM-120 even more difficult, because of obvious issues for the tech being stolen which is also why the US insisted on Egypt to sign the CISMOA (Communications and Information Security Memorandum of Agreement) which included agreements for the nontransferable information of sensitive communication systems and military equipment as well as radar systems and precision-guided missiles to 3rd party members. There are other clauses in there that include literature that specifically mentions giving Israel the QME and restricting Egypt of certain types of advanced weapons in order to maintain & preserve that QME. The cards are immensely stacked against Egypt because the zionist are scared shitless of us. And it's obvious we seem to be the ONLY ones they're scared out of their minds of with maybe the exception of Iran.

Considering that familiarity with the Chinese, it must've been something they considered extensively and have made the determination not to go with the J-10C FOR NOW. Who knows maybe they do sometime down the road they do.

What is Egypts retirement plans for the F16s btw? It can't be Rafale - that is a 2 engine heavy beast. What is Egypt looking at for the light end of the single engine requirements? They must have some game plan to retire the early bird F16s by now?

Why retire them? They serve a critical part of the EAF's requirement and I don't expect them to retire the fleet any time before 2040 at the earliest.

I'll tell you what the plan 'was' and that is to have the F-16s, Rafales, MiG-29M eventually the MiG-35 all as the low spectrum and the Su-35SE as the high end, eventually move to the Su-57 as the 5th generation. Obviously that plan has been punched in the nose and kiobashed. Now it might end up being the aforementioned low end fighters and the F-15E/S/ES whatever as the higher end depending not only on the weapons package associated with the F-15, but the terms of usage which are both awful beyond awful that I doubt any agreement will be reached with that.

The alternative is to find a way around CAATSA and pursue either Russian 5th generation aircraft in the Su-57 & Su-75 or move in another completely different direction as in one of the other 5th generation developers such as South Korea, Türkiye or even France. The latter I feel will be a huge part of the EAF's future plans. Sorry about the long post but it's the only way I can articulate all this important information to answer your questions to be best of my knowledge.

 

[The SC]

Hi,
When will they start making these missiles, another thing is what’s the Chinese catch letting Egypt make these missiles, I believe may be assembling of them, if we go by virtue of EAF USE OF these missiles with their own software im pretty sure Egypt can’t export these to other countries
If you have anymore info about my Qs, please reply with something parallel to USA made missiles as they are not letting anyone even to assemble or make the export quality one
and mig29 is compatible with EC2, if yes what link are they using for Russian or fighters
If possible to answer
Thank you

Yes.. might be under license..

 

[GoMig-21]

Since we have seen Ukranian Su-27s with ipads operating HARMs and other western missiles, anything is possible i guess. Modern computing CPU technolofgy is now sooo damn powerful that you can run entire aircraft software suites in Virtual machines/Hpervisors on Tablets ..... Software emulators have come on along way and have changed the game as far as integration of different systems goes now, as have standardised military "buses" like MIL-STF-1553 and its derivatives with optical technology.

That's a great point. You just gave me an idea reading your post just now how the EAF could quite possibly -- even easily -- integrate something like the PL-15E onto not only its Rafales, but even its F-16s without source codes for either of the aircraft.

If they've done it using a different manufacturer's weapon, then it should be doable provided the application is flexible for both, A2G & A2A. Case in point - we know the EAF & the UAE have both integrated the Al-Tariq glide munitions from Denel which the UAE now owns not only their Mirages, but on their F-16s as well. But let's take the UAE out of the equation for now since their access to US weapons and systems is without any opposition for the most part, unlike the EAF.

If the Al-Tariqs were integrated on the EAF's F-16s without any source codes or software upgrades or anything of the sort, they were most likely made functional remotely by use of tablets and GPS technology just like you mentioned. Unless the US provided the means to integrate the weapon through the aircraft's avionics. Without the source codes, I doubt it and I doubt the US gave Egypt the source codes for the F-16 Block 52. The same could be said for France with the EAF's Mirage 2Ks.


So assuming the GPS glide bombs were in fact integrated remotely, what's to prevent them from doing the same with the PL-15E onto their F-16s, Rafales and even MiG-29Ms using the same method? Using a targeting & tracking method adaptable to the use of tablets.

And we know the Chinese have that pylon adapter that @The SC mentioned which is compatible with their A2A/A2G missiles for conversions onto any aircraft of western or Russian origin. The only thing we don't know is if that adapter can only be used to fire the missile via the aircraft's avionics, or by means of this new tablet/GPS combination as well?

But we know how the Chinese are pretty advanced in the latest computer hardware & software technology so possessing that particular type would not be a stretch by any means.

The only question is if using remote connections through tablets would work on A2A missiles like it does with A2G munitions. But something tells me this is not only workable, but easily doable, especially if the Chinese can provide the remote connection for their own missiles. That would make it beyond easy to adapt and perhaps that's what the EAF & Chinese are thinking with the PL-15E considering all the friction & opposition from the French and the Meteor, even the US and the AIM-120.

Tariqs on both EAF blk 52s & Mirage 2ks

Al-Tariq is a modular IN/GPS-guided bomb kit, used to convert unguided bombs as Mk-81/82/83 into guided glide bombs. It has a range of 40-120km.

And with this (as per the main man himself @The SC who was the first to showcase it to all of us...):



Now it's only a matter of whether the PL-15E is launchable using only a tablet with other methods of targeting & locking on instead of GPS coordinates since obviously the latter wouldn't work for moving, aerial targets, or if the radar can be interfaced with the tablet's software. Then it's almost all the way there.

 

[The SC]

That's a great point. You just gave me an idea reading your post just now how the EAF could quite possibly -- even easily -- integrate something like the PL-15E onto not only its Rafales, but even its F-16s without source codes for either of the aircraft.

If they've done it using a different manufacturer's weapon, then it should be doable provided the application is flexible for both, A2G & A2A. Case in point - we know the EAF & the UAE have both integrated the Al-Tariq glide munitions from Denel which the UAE now owns not only their Mirages, but on their F-16s as well. But let's take the UAE out of the equation for now since their access to US weapons and systems is without any opposition for the most part, unlike the EAF.

If the Al-Tariqs were integrated on the EAF's F-16s without any source codes or software upgrades or anything of the sort, they were most likely made functional remotely by use of tablets and GPS technology just like you mentioned. Unless the US provided the means to integrate the weapon through the aircraft's avionics. Without the source codes, I doubt it and I doubt the US gave Egypt the source codes for the F-16 Block 52. The same could be said for France with the EAF's Mirage 2Ks.


So assuming the GPS glide bombs were in fact integrated remotely, what's to prevent them from doing the same with the PL-15E onto their F-16s, Rafales and even MiG-29Ms using the same method? Using a targeting & tracking method adaptable to the use of tablets.

And we know the Chinese have that pylon adapter that @The SC mentioned which is compatible with their A2A/A2G missiles for conversions onto any aircraft of western or Russian origin. The only thing we don't know is if that adapter can only be used to fire the missile via the aircraft's avionics, or by means of this new tablet/GPS combination as well?

But we know how the Chinese are pretty advanced in the latest computer hardware & software technology so possessing that particular type would not be a stretch by any means.

The only question is if using remote connections through tablets would work on A2A missiles like it does with A2G munitions. But something tells me this is not only workable, but easily doable, especially if the Chinese can provide the remote connection for their own missiles. That would make it beyond easy to adapt and perhaps that's what the EAF & Chinese are thinking with the PL-15E considering all the friction & opposition from the French and the Meteor, even the US and the AIM-120.

Tariqs on both EAF blk 52s & Mirage 2ks
View attachment 40106
View attachment 40110

Al-Tariq is a modular IN/GPS-guided bomb kit, used to convert unguided bombs as Mk-81/82/83 into guided glide bombs. It has a range of 40-120km.

And with this (as per the main man himself @The SC who was the first to showcase it to all of us...):



Now it's only a matter of whether the PL-15E is launchable using only a tablet with other methods of targeting & locking on instead of GPS coordinates since obviously the latter wouldn't work for moving, aerial targets, or if the radar can be interfaced with the tablet's software. Then it's almost all the way there.

NATO US have made an adapter too..they are using it on the Ukrainian Mig-29 to launch their weapons..

https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_an...8_harm_missiles_and_who_lent_a_hand-4237.html

 

[GoMig-21]

NATO US have made an adapter too..they are using it on the Ukrainian Mig-29 to launch their weapons..

View attachment 40115

https://en.defence-ua.com/weapon_an...8_harm_missiles_and_who_lent_a_hand-4237.html

Yep, and Ukraine just announced it's getting its first F-16s in June/July and the article I was reading this morning showed one armed with exactly that AGM-88 HARM missile. Let's see how close they can get to Russian ADSs and how they'll contend with the VKS's Su-35Ss and you know the US has trained & supplied Uke pilots on the AIM-120 & AIM-9X. Last thing the US wants is the failure of its vaunted F-16s to Russian aircraft, specifically the Su-35. Conversely, you know that Putin & the Russians are chomping at the bit to take down those F-16s and collect their parts for the Moscow parade next year! Interesting times ahead.

 

[GoMig-21]

On 05/19/2022, Egypt obtained two types of radars, SOPKA-2 and LIRA-A10.

LIRA-A10

Sopka-2 S-band Air-Route Radar Complex (ARRC) is intended for application as radar data source for air traffic control and airspace monitoring systems.

Awesome. This is why you see the same thing at many Russian airports we're familiar with such as Zhukovsky and Komsomolsk on Amur and others. Even painted in similar red & white pattern.

The Russians even set them up in Syria for the air bases they were operating out of and I think added them to Syrian ones too.