First specs of Turkish AC project

[LegionnairE]

Guys please respect each other

Racist

This "anybody is allowed on the forum" policy has to change. Why are we having to deal with kids?

 

[Ak01]

(maybe they can retrofit 1-2 EMALS on the port side to launch heavy aircraft, creating a hybrid Stobar/Catobar

EMALS is not cheap nor easy to design.

The FMS sale for one EMALS system to france was $1.32 BILLION, that too in 2021, probably touch $1.5Bn PER SYSTEM now.

 

[LegionnairE]

EMALS is not cheap nor easy to design.

The FMS sale for one EMALS system to france was $1.32 BILLION, that too in 2021, probably touch $1.5Bn PER SYSTEM now.

it's the only way forward especially for a country like Turkey. It can launch 2-ton Mojave and 20 ton E-2 Hawkeye alike.

It's exactly what Turkey wants. We want to launch a navalized version of Kaan (which is probably the heaviest fighter jet in the world) and TB3 from the same platform.

This necessitates EMALS.

Yes, it is expensive.

But Turkey wants to do expensive things.

 

[MMM-E]

It's exactly what Turkey wants. We want to launch a navalized version of Kaan, which is probably the heaviest fighter jet in the world and TB3 from the same platform.

KAAN is lighter than SU-33 and J-15

Gross weight
KAAN : 25.000 kg
J-15 : 27,000 kg
SU-33 : 29,940 kg

Thrust of Engines
KAAN : 2 x TF-35.000 ( 2 X 35.000 lbf = 70.000 )
J-15 : 2 × WS-10B (2 x 30.000 lbf = 60.000 )
SU-33 : 2 × Saturn AL-31F3 (2 x 28,200 lbf = 56.400 )

Navalized KAAN can take off from 285 m Aircraft Carrier

It can launch 2-ton Mojave and 20 ton E-2 Hawkeye alike.

No need E-2

ROYAL Navy use Helicopter for AEW role for its Queen E. class Aircraft Carrier

with the Searchwater 2000 Radar

 

[LegionnairE]

No need E-2

ROYAL Navy use Helicopter for AEW role for its Queen E. class Aircraft Carriers

with the Searchwater 2000 Radar

we have a shortage of helicopters as it is. And Kaan's nose radar is probably better than this helicopter mounted option.

Ultimately we're going to want a flying EİRS

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[MMM-E]

we have a shortage of helicopters as it is. And Kaan's nose radar is probably better than this helicopter mounted option.

We can buy same Helicopter System from NATO

Also in the next 10 years we can get our own T-925 Helicopter
wth are we working with only Ukraine ?
We can buy Engines from ROLLS ROYCE to use on T-925 Helicopter
The UK doesnt impose embargo on Turkiye

Also we can develop 3.000 shp turboshaft Engine from core Engine of TF-6.000 turbofan Engine until 2035 when AC enter service


and We have most modern GaN based AESA Radar technology to develop AEW Helicopter and AEWC

 

[Harbyharb]

Let's empty the whole flight deck because 1 KE has to take off sounds brilliant mate.

China isn't investing so much on EMALS just to improve sortie rate. it's because STOBAR is shit. Every navy worth its salt discovered this.

Before you make the argument that a long takeoff route from a STOBAR would empty the entire flight deck, I would ask you to carefully compare the deck plans of 1143.5 and INS Vikramaditya, specifically the path aircraft would take from the elevator, to the staging area, and to the takeoff position. Thanks to the optimization the INS Vikramaditya makes for long takeoff routes, which on 1143.5 would disrupt just as much landing operations, it could achieve similar sortie rates if both carriers are using just long takeoff routes, which is the most used takeoff method anyway while having 20k ton less displacement.

China invests in EMALS because it needs a peer blue water navy to contend with the US's fleets and bases in the West Pacific, which means not just high sortie rates and jets with increased payload for both fuel and advanced munitions, but also servicing campaign-level aerial assets such as carrier-borne AWACS. That is not necessary if you just need a floating airfield that could hang around a nation's coastline, threatening to launch a dozen strike sorties a day.

If STOBAR really is shit, then obviously every STOBAR carrier built after the 2000s was the work of complete folly and they should hire you as their naval strategist instead.

 

[Harbyharb]

KAAN is lighter than SU-33 and J-15

Navalizing the KAAN would be a bad idea.

Its MTOW figure still indeterminate aside, the KAAN is the largest fifth-gen fighter that ever flew, exceeding the Fagin in length and Felon in width, and while that might not be an issue on land, it is definitely not desirable on the carrier deck. Even with folding wings, large aircraft require large turning circles and large manoeuvre space, are harder to fit onto elevators, and would significantly negatively impact the sortie rate.

There's a reason that the A-5 Vagabond were quickly retired, the F-111B got cancelled, VMF is phasing the Su-33 out in favour of the MiG-29K, and China didn't make a naval version of the Fagin.

 

[MMM-E]

Navalizing the KAAN would be a bad idea.

Navalized HURJET can not match with even RAFALE

We need a real platform like KAAN to match with potential Enemies ... RAFALE and F-35 Fighter Jets

Its MTOW figure still indeterminate aside, the KAAN is the largest fifth-gen fighter that ever flew, exceeding the Fagin in length and Fagin in width, and while that might not be an issue on land, it is definitely not desirable on the carrier deck. Even with folding wings, large aircraft require large turning circles and large manoeuvre space, are harder to fit onto elevators, and would significantly negatively impact the sortie rate.

We will not use 40 KAAN on Aircraft Carrier

We can use mix of 40 Aircraft
12 KAAN
24 KIZILELMA
4 Helicopters

and 285 m Aircarft Carrier ( 68 m wide ) is enough for navalized KAAN

even TAI says that KAAN's length will be shortened a little

 

[hyperman]

Indonesian PAL is likely the shipyard to build the LHD for our Navy

View attachment 36470

Yes but the design, I think I read somewhere that Turkey was the one that was assisting as Indonesia was interested in using the carrier as a drone carrier like the TCG Anadolu. Idk if the rumors are accurate, we shall see.

 

[hodor]

Navalized HURJET can not match with even RAFALE

I agree with you 100 percent. It would be stupid to make a navalized version of Hurjet.

If we are going to build a serious aircraft carrier, we have no choice but to use Kaan. Maybe in the navalized version of Kaan we can reduce its dimensions a bit.

 

[That_Guy]

I agree with you 100 percent. It would be stupid to make a navalized version of Hurjet.

If we are going to build a serious aircraft carrier, we have no choice but to use Kaan. Maybe in the navalized version of Kaan we can reduce its dimensions a bit.

It begs the question though; in 11 years, the issues between the US and Turkey will likely resolve themselves, and I'm willing to bet that the Turks will have the F-35 available to them. Would Turkey rather spend the money to develop a naval variant of the KAAN, or would they simply seek to buy an F-35C as a cheaper option?

 

[hyperman]

It begs the question though; in 11 years, the issues between the US and Turkey will likely resolve themselves, and I'm willing to bet that the Turks will have the F-35 available to them. Would Turkey rather spend the money to develop a naval variant of the KAAN, or would they simply seek to buy an F-35C as a cheaper option?

I don't think there will be a naval KAAN, we are discussing this hypothetical when its likely not the route Turkey takes. The route that has been mentioned is Hurjet and Kizilelma along with ANKA drones.

 

[That_Guy]

I don't think there will be a naval KAAN, we are discussing this hypothetical when its likely not the route Turkey takes. The route that has been mentioned is Hurjet and Kizilelma along with ANKA drones.

Kizilelma and ANKA make sense, but Hurjet though? I don't know, it doesn't sound right. Maybe as a sort of light attack or air defense role.

For a 60,000 ton AC as well. For that size, they'd be foolish to not try and find a full carrier fighter. Even the Japanese Hyuga class "destroyers" with a 20,000 ton displacement are capable of and expected to carry F35s.

The Turkish AC would be severely outgunned if it's only two fighter-Drones and a light fighter.

 

[LegionnairE]

Navalizing the KAAN would be a bad idea.

I think investing EMALS and to design an aircraft carrier around the limitations of a possible naval Kaan , will be much cheaper and easier than developing a second fifth gen fighter. Which, let's be honest, is never going to happen.

Kizilelma and ANKA make sense, but Hurjet though? I don't know, it doesn't sound right.

It only makes sense to me as a UAV controller since it's a double seater unlike Kaan.

If STOBAR really is shit, then obviously every STOBAR carrier built after the 2000s was the work of complete folly

Some countries want an aircraft carrier mostly for bragging rights rather than to serve in actual combat.

Which probably includes Turkey unfortunately. But if it was me, I'd want something functional.

I'd want an aircraft carrier that's capable of launching Kaan with full combat load, an AEW&C aircraft that carries the EİRS radar and various UAVs at the same time and I'd want a reasonable sortie rate. I don't think there's any chance in hell that STOBAR can do this.