Gaza-Israel Conflict | 2023-2024

[Dalit]

@VCheng , even an American-born Jew raised in Miami, FLA and lived in Israel for a period is running for congress because she understands not only the plight of the Palestinians, but also that a 2-state solution is IMPOSSIBLE as many of us here understand as well and have been trying to convey to you. But for some reason you still seem to be holding out unrealistic hope that not only can it be achieved, but in record time as well which is even more bizarre considering what I know of you and your ability to rationalize things.

Between minute 3:26 - 3:37 (11 seconds) is all you need to hear, and she puts it as simply as can be. Is she mistaken also, like the rest of us?



Your blind, vitriolic disdain of Arab leaders but also Arabs in general is really showing (pretty sure you include the Arab population as a whole, as well, with your combined & repetitive insults with the use of the terms "beggar nations, scavengers & poodles") to the point that it has clouded your ability to see or understand the realities on the ground, the actual true & authentic reasons for signing agreements such as this one. You either aren't making the effort to understand why, or you choose not to in order to push your anti-Arab narrative.

It's gotten so bad to the point where you just automatically and instinctively associate things like this agreement with being beggars, poodles and scavengers and such a thing is the reason that makes them "do the bidding of outsiders?" Why did you fall just short of calling them ZIONISTS instead of "outsiders"? hahaha.

Sorry, Dalit, I'm usually with you on most things but the absurdity of this is entirely on another level, just can't let it go.

This agreement has roots that go back to 2013 and the devaluation of the Egyptian pound and the devastated economy post-revolution, contrary to your wishful thinking that it's related to some deal that assists the zionists and makes Arabs complicit in this genocide which is the most egregiously disgusting insult one can ever make to not just an individual country, but an entire region with a group of nations and their entire populations. Shame on you and the others who keep peddling this bullshit on this board and if you think most of us will just sit here and take it, you got another thing coming because it's abhorrent. Worst of all, is nothing but a gaddam lie! Let's take a look at this article you linked, shall we?

This is the first tranche of a €7.4 billion EU funding package pledge in financial support for Egypt’s economic reforms and an upgraded relationship in exchange for energy sales and stemming migrant flows to Europe.
The EU has concluded similar deals with Tunisia, Mauritania and Turkey.

Energy sales and stemming migrant flows to Europe which means illegal migration because this is part of a larger military cooperation in the Mediterranean Sea between Egypt & the EU to conduct maritime missions to curb the massive flow of people trying to flee from Africa, mostly from through Libya which can't do much to stop it due to the civil war going on there.

This was also decided between Egypt and Greece in particular, which is why we've had MANY naval exercises with them in the last 8 years for this exact reason and now that Egypt & Turkey have mended ties, there will also be naval cooperation for that exact same reason. Tunisia included because of its strategic location. How beggar of us!

The loan agreement is also in addition to the extensive cost the Egyptian Navy has incurred for its need to modernize the entire fleet. That loan will ease the payments for several of the new frigates & submarines etc. How poodle-ish of us!

There's also this:

As part of the overall deal, both sides signed a flurry of agreements that would cover a range of policy areas.

This included a Green Sustainable Industry program fed by a €30 million EU grant, designed to aid Egyptian industry in investing in pollution reduction, decarbonisation, energy and resource efficiency. It also included three financing agreements worth a total of €36 million.
Another €60 million EU support package was also agreed on to improve grain storage in Egypt under the Food and Resilience Facility.
As part of the new investment push, European companies signed more than 20 new deals or memoranda of understanding (MOUs) worth some €40 billion.

“The €40 billion of investment agreements, if you look at the national figures of Egypt, that is four years of foreign direct investment,” Várhelyi said, adding this could “bring the golden age of EU-Egypt relationship”.

The companies in question would be looking to invest are in sectors such as hydrogen, water management construction, chemicals, shipping and aviation.
Cairo has been betting on its natural gas reserves to gain access to foreign currency, while the EU has sought alternatives to Russian gas since its war on Ukraine has cut trade ties between the two sides.
“Egypt could not only become able to supply its own electricity, but Egypt could become a serious supplier of Europe, a reliable supplier of Europe with green electricity,” How scavenger of us!

God forbid Egyptian or Arab leaders try and look for the development & enriching of their own countries for the betterment of their own people because to hell with all of that, they're just a bunch of zionist stooge cucks hellbent on the destruction of the Palestinians and are closet zionists or whatever other BS you & co. like to constantly peddle on this board and in particular this thread, simply because of your hatred of Arabs and for other agendas that I won't get into here for now since I don't wish to derail the topic. Suffice it to say, I will always call you -- or others -- out whenever you try to peddle these despicable lies and untruths and the complete manipulations of the truth to demean Arabs. I have absolutely no qualms about doing that to set the record straight which I honestly wish I didn't have to do. I wish all of us supporting the Palestinian cause would cease from the demonizing of Arabs and Muslims since all that does is create a misguided divide. It disunifies us and actually helps the enemy out more and it's made even worse when it's fabricated untruths.

Arabs have pathetic leaders. I am also very badly disappointed by the Arab neighbours and yes the peoples. Don't judge or blame me. I reserve the right to condemn cowards who don't come to the aid of their brothers and sisters. Don't get just angry at me though. The whole world has put question marks at the Arab response. The Arab response has been beyond disgraceful.

I am not anti-Arab. We Pakistanis aren't anti-Arab generally speaking. We are not ethnically Arab and we have no beef with Arabs. We have no motive for being anti-Arab. However, we will call out Arab leaders for abandoning their own kind. It is the elephant in the room.

Your leaders are supporters of the farcical Abraham Accords. Your leaders lied about the prospects of peace through Abraham Accords. Abraham Accords only brought misery. Arab countries and Arab leaders are only interested in appeasing the Americans and trading with Israel. The Arab leaders have proved that they don’t care about the plight of the Palestinians.

Your dictator El-Sisi is a sellout. His statements tell everything. He doesn't care about Palestine. Don't tell me that you support Sisi.

 

[Dalit]

Just like normal Muslim citizens sell their souls for money and power, the leadership does the same. They will not sacrifice their power for Gaza or anywhere else. They too want to be allies with the big boys.

When I say this they call me anti-Arab. Muslims, Arabs etc. have all disappointed. The direct Arab neighbours of the Palestinians are a disgrace though. I will say it as it is. What a shameful bunch.

 

[lightning f57]

Its a pity the leaders of the arab and muslim world do not representt the wishes of the majority of their people otherwise for sure this genocide would never have got to this stage of relentless killing in the most savage ways. The leaders may turn a blind eye to this, we the people will never forget this.

 

[Dalit]

Its a pity the leaders of the arab and muslim world do not representt the wishes of the majority of their people otherwise for sure this genocide would never have got to this stage of relentless killing in the most savage ways. The leaders may turn a blind eye to this, we the people will never forget this.

At the very least the resourceful Arab nations could have united and put some meaningful economic pressure on the powers that are supporting Israel in their genocide. They didn't because they are not interested in the plight of Palestinians. This is the harsh truth.

The truth is that most Arab nations don't care about Palestine. Today students at various campuses around the world are making more noise than all Islamic nations combined. The Arab leaders only care about their worldly desires and above all maintaining good ties with Israel. The Arab nations have been exposed very badly. This cannot be concealed in any way.

 

[lightning f57]

At the very least the resourceful Arab nations could have united and put some meaningful economic pressure on the powers that are supporting Israel in their genocide. They didn't because they are not interested in the plight of Palestinians. This is the harsh truth.

The truth is that most Arab nations don't care about Palestine. Today students at various campuses around the world are making more noise than all Islamic nations combined. The Arab leaders only care about their worldly desires and above all maintaining good ties with Israel. The Arab nations have been exposed very badly. This cannot be concealed in any way.

Treachery always has blowback at some point, how it manifests itself later we will see.

 

[Dalit]

Treachery always has blowback at some point, how it manifests itself later we will see.

I believe the Arab nations will pay a hefty price. This farcical Abraham Accords will come to haunt them very badly. Israel is a state that wants to expand its borders beyond Palestine.

 

[VCheng]

@VCheng , even an American-born Jew raised in Miami, FLA and lived in Israel for a period is running for congress because she understands not only the plight of the Palestinians, but also that a 2-state solution is IMPOSSIBLE as many of us here understand as well and have been trying to convey to you. But for some reason you still seem to be holding out unrealistic hope that not only can it be achieved, but in record time as well which is even more bizarre considering what I know of you and your ability to rationalize things.

Between minute 3:26 - 3:37 (11 seconds) is all you need to hear, and she puts it as simply as can be. Is she mistaken also, like the rest of us?

I listened to her as you indicated.

Look at it this way: if a two state solution is regarded as impossible, what other solution is there that will allow both sides (NOTE: this is not a declaration of who is in the right or wrong, merely noting the status quo), each one millions strong and overzealously inflamed, to live side by side in peace? Each side cannot kill all of the other, and neither can each side remove each other or even wish the other one away. That much is indeed clear.

What she is referring to as impossible is the only solution possible. Her assessment is more an indication of just how much more difficult this solution is being made from a combination of hardening attitudes within each side, given present events, aided by outside forces trying to create the most adverse situation they possibly can, for their own geopolitical advantages.

I could go into more detail as to how to make possible the only solution possible, but there is simply no chance of doing that in this thread, or indeed even in this forum, given the environment that is actively encouraged here, to its own detriment.

 

[Unknowntruth]

 

[Musings]

I listened to her as you indicated.

Look at it this way: if a two state solution is regarded as impossible, what other solution is there that will allow both sides (NOTE: this is not a declaration of who is in the right or wrong, merely noting the status quo), each one millions strong and overzealously inflamed, to live side by side in peace? Each side cannot kill all of the other, and neither can each side remove each other or even wish the other one away. That much is indeed clear.

What she is referring to as impossible is the only solution possible. Her assessment is more an indication of just how much more difficult this solution is being made from a combination of hardening attitudes within each side, given present events, aided by outside forces trying to create the most adverse situation they possibly can, for their own geopolitical advantages.

I could go into more detail as to how to make possible the only solution possible, but there is simply no chance of doing that in this thread, or indeed even in this forum, given the environment that is actively encouraged here, to its own detriment.

VC
With the level of bombardment in Gaza I have to say Netanyahu has no desire for a 2 state solution. They are ethnic cleansing and trying to remove every Palestinian in the region.
I saw a horrific video today of a Palestinian child burnt to death. Eyes still open staring into the camera. In peace - dead - looking straight at the camera. It takes a special sort of soldier to be sitting next to this corpse - smiling at the cameramen.
VC - do you see that this will leave a legacy of people burning inside looking for revenge.
Tough times ahead…..

 

[PakAl]

When I say this they call me anti-Arab. Muslims, Arabs etc. have all disappointed. The direct neighbours of Palestinians are a disgrace though. What a shameful bunch.

Muslims used to have one of the greatest civilisation in the world, compare us to those people, we have no unity, education, culture, values, progress. We are rock bottom and suffering. This is present reality. Our leadership is the same.

 

[Persian Gulf]

2 IDF terrorists liquidated and 2 more seriously wounded by Hamas in north Gaza

Two Israeli terrorists were killed during fighting in the northern Gaza Strip yesterday, the occupation military announces.

The slain terrorists are named as: Staff Sgt. Yair Avitan, 20, of the Paratroopers Brigade's 890th Battalion, from Ra'anana. Sgt. First Class (res.) Yakir Shmuel Tatelbaum, 21, of the 7th Armored Brigade's 77th Battalion, from Ma'ale Adumim.

The terrorists were killed in separate incidents.

Huge anti-government protests continue in "Israel"



Palestinian resistance fighters continue to launch rockets into "Israel"

 

[Persian Gulf]

Also, just because Hezbollah is close to Iran, doesn't mean it doesn't have its own calculations. Hezbollah has a long history with the Israeli occupation. They can hurt Israel for a month or two in a big way but after that it can become lopsided against Lebanon if there isn't assistance from third parties. Financially and militarily. Hezbollah understand there is no actual plan by Iran nor Arab and Islamic nations to fight a major and proper campaign against Israel. It would be Lebanon on its own and Israel has time on its side thanks to unending support by NATO and US.

That's part of the reason they didn't go in with Hamas. Basically what they can achieve is to distract attention away from Gaza at a big cost for Lebanon. And they don't think it's worth it. And they believe Lebanese people would be furious if that was the reason to go to war.

And I can't blame them. It makes sense. They like Hamas and need Hamas and vice versa. But there is a ceiling to what they can do if Arabs nor Iran actually take a initiative to resupply and economically support a war effort.

And it's unfortunate for Gaza but is the reality. That being said, we still don't know if Israel will attack Lebanon, regardless. And if things may spiral out of control in wider region for whatever reasons. But right now the calculations is a net loss if committing to full blown war effort against Israel, in the long run.

I agree with most of what you say here and in your prior post. I disagree with one thing: "It would be Lebanon on its own". Lebanon has not been on its own since its origins in the 1980s. IRGC commanders were on the ground fighting side by side with Hezbollah fighters then, in the 2000s, in 2006, and likely today. Massive exchange of technical information and assistance and arms exports from Iran to Lebanon (via Iraq and Syria) continue by land, sea, and air. A senior Hezbollah leader said that arms deliveries from Iran have increased by a factor of at least 6 since the Gaza-Israel war/genocide started.

Iran won't deploy a large number of troops to Lebanon (logistically this is not feasible, and would turn the Lebanese people against Hezbollah even further), but in no way would Hezbollah be on its own in such a war. Top cadre of IRGC commanders view Hezbollah as their kin/brothers and dozens have already become martyrs while fighting with/for Hezbollah. To be candid, the Iran-Hezbollah relationship is fundamentally different to the Iran-Hamas relationship. The former is ideological and totally aligned between family who have spent blood together, the latter is more a relationship of convenience for both sides.

 

[r3alist]

Also, just because Hezbollah is close to Iran, doesn't mean it doesn't have its own calculations. Hezbollah has a long history with the Israeli occupation. They can hurt Israel for a month or two in a big way but after that it can become lopsided against Lebanon if there isn't assistance from third parties. Financially and militarily. Hezbollah understand there is no actual plan by Iran nor Arab and Islamic nations to fight a major and proper campaign against Israel. It would be Lebanon on its own and Israel has time on its side thanks to unending support by NATO and US.

That's part of the reason they didn't go in with Hamas. Basically what they can achieve is to distract attention away from Gaza at a big cost for Lebanon. And they don't think it's worth it. And they believe Lebanese people would be furious if that was the reason to go to war.

And I can't blame them. It makes sense. They like Hamas and need Hamas and vice versa. But there is a ceiling to what they can do if Arabs nor Iran actually take a initiative to resupply and economically support a war effort.

And it's unfortunate for Gaza but is the reality. That being said, we still don't know if Israel will attack Lebanon, regardless. And if things may spiral out of control in wider region for whatever reasons. But right now the calculations is a net loss if committing to full blown war effort against Israel, in the long run.

Very good points, sober and rational.

How much fire power do these rockets have? How many would get through?

Can they damage serious military targets?

 

[r3alist]

 

[925boy]

Just like normal Muslim citizens sell their souls for money and power, the leadership does the same. They will not sacrifice their power for Gaza or anywhere else. They too want to be allies with the big boys.

This is very well written, but also painful/hard to accept.