Gaza-Israel Conflict | 2023-2024

[r3alist]

Iv refuted this guy with facts so many times he comes back with more BS. One example il give you he said jews legally immigrated to palestine, the british put quotas in the 1930s because too many jews were going to Palestine and it started to cause tensions are violence.

He is filibustering and spamming the thread, you are playing into it.

Maybe reconsider.

 

[lightning f57]

He is filibustering and spamming the thread, you are playing into it.

Maybe reconsider.

I wont be bothering but its important to refute lies with facts so one can use these facts against these type of people not just on this forum.

 

[r3alist]

I wont be bothering but its important to refute lies with facts so one can use these facts against these type of people not just on this forum.

I think on this thread ignoring is the way to go.... Definitely not prolonged exchanges.

 

[Aziqbal]

I have countered you a lot with solid evidence.
If you are denial and become ad hominem accusing me this and that then the topic is over.



While it's true that UN Resolution 242 calls for Israel to withdraw from territories occupied in the 1967 war, the extent and interpretation of that withdrawal have been debated for decades, making the statement "there is no debate on it" not entirely accurate.

Here's why:

1. Resolution 242 is ambiguous on the specifics of withdrawal: The resolution uses the phrase "territories occupied in the recent conflict" without specifying which territories or the full extent of withdrawal. This ambiguity has allowed different interpretations by various parties.
2. Disagreements over pre-1967 borders: While some interpret the resolution as calling for a return to the pre-1967 borders, Israel argues for adjustments due to security concerns and historical considerations. This disagreement fuels the debate on the extent of withdrawal.
3. Conditions for withdrawal: Israel often mentions additional conditions not explicitly stated in the resolution, such as security guarantees and formal recognition by neighboring countries, before complete withdrawal. This further complicates the interpretation and implementation.

Therefore, while Resolution 242 undeniably calls for withdrawal, how that translates into practice is subject to ongoing debate and disagreement between Israel, Palestinians, and the international community.

Stating that "there is no debate on it" simplifies a complex issue with diverse perspectives and historical context. It's crucial to acknowledge the different interpretations and ongoing discussions surrounding Resolution 242 for a more nuanced understanding of the situation.

I hope this clarifies the ambiguity surrounding the statement and provides a more comprehensive perspective on the issue.



Then how you would handle the opposition from jews who are 73% of Israel population against new Regime that Arab/Islamic world established on them?




Still, these words are not about Hamas ultimate mission. It more portray tactical purpose.




They do it for self defence and security, while you intend to do it for ideology purpose; that is the difference.

They just want sustainable freedom from terror attack. And it is felt as necessary reaction.

Changing government because that government keep attacking you (+ being oppressive to their own people) is different story.

Stop posting long BS posts no one has time to read them

Occupation leads to radicalization

Stop occupation issue will be solved

 

[lightning f57]

I posted this one the old forum so will add here. A key component of confirming genocide is intent. Israeli government officials are bending over backwards to confirm their genocidal intent. Here is a list of them:

• Israel’s Defence Minister Yoav Gallant - We are fighting human animals, and we are acting accordingly, We will eliminate everything - they will regret it
• Netanyahoo genocidal call to wipe out Gaza - You must remember what Amalek has done to you, says our Holy Bible - we do remember
• Maj. Gen Ghassan Alian - There will be no electricity and no water (in Gaza), there will only be destruction. You wanted hell, you will get hell
• Moshe Feiglin, the founder of Israel's right-wing Zehut Party and former Likud representative - Gaza should be razed and Israel’s rule should be restored to the place. This is our country
• Amit Halevi Likud MP - There should be two goals for this victory: One, there is no more Muslim land in the land of Israel … After we make it the land of Israel, Gaza should be left as a monument, like Sodom
• Nissim Vaturi- deputy speaker for Israel’s parliament using ethnic cleaning language - Nakba? Expel them all
• Israeli Heritage Minister Amichai Eliyahu said on radio about dropping a nuke on Gaza

Other thing of note, aparthied Israeli media and its hosts are mocking and asking for genocide in Gaza. This draws starking similarity to Radio Télévision Libre des Mille Collines in Rwanda which had a significant role in the genocide, described by many as the arm of the Hutu government. This is having a siginificant affect on the Israeli populace, you have Israeli school children singing for genocide in gaza.

 

[Antonius123]

He is filibustering and spamming the thread, you are playing into it.

Maybe reconsider.

Spamming thread is filling/posting irrelevant topics in this thread, including the ad-hominem and personal attack that you are demonstrating here. I am contributing very much relevant opinions here, although my opinion is not in agreement with yours.

Ad-hominem and personal attacks signify that you have no more rationale counters on the topics.

Stop posting long BS posts no one has time to read them

Occupation leads to radicalization

Stop occupation issue will be solved

If you / Palestine commit peace and recognition of Israel existence like what Egypt did, then I think your enemy will also settle the occupation issue, the way as Israel did when she returned the captured Sinai to Egypt. But if you continue to promise to destroy Israel then you give them reason to continue what she is doing now.

 

[r3alist]

You see? getting desperate.

 

[UKBengali]

If you / Palestine commit peace and recognition of Israel existence like what Egypt did, then I think your enemy will also settle the occupation issue, the way as Israel did when she returned the captured Sinai to Egypt. But if you continue to promise to destroy Israel then you give them reason to continue what she is doing now.

I am going to go on the assumption that you are being geniune here.

Israel simply does not accept the Palestinians as a nation. They never offered a fully sovereign state.

What was on the table is a series of bantustans in the West Bank and in Gaza. All airspace, water and borders would be controlled by Israel forever.

Egypt is different as that is not considered part of the "core" Zionist territories and so they were willing to give back Sinai in order to take out the most powerful Arab nation against them.

Like already mentioned this land dispute will be settled by force and rights-wrongs are meaningless anymore. Unless Israel can genocide/cleanse the millions of Palestianians in Gaza and the West Bank then their future looks like that of the Crusader States, as the balance of power swings away from the West to China, especially on the Asian continent.

 

[r3alist]

I am going to go on the assumption that you are being geniune here.

Ah he got a bite!

 

[r3alist]

Netanyahu Outsmarted by ‘Wily’ Biden? No, Biden Is the One Being Played

Biden may believe that his ‘long experience’ puts him on the ‘right side’ in judging events, but his experience is drawn from another era. ❗️Join…

strategic-culture.su

 

[Aziqbal]

I don’t know why Hezbollah does not simply level the IDF barracks on the border with the Burkan missiles

Just level them

 

[Persian Gulf]

Hamas and PIJ reject Egyptian proposal to give up weapons in return for a ceasefire with Israel

https://twitter.com/x/status/1739273606264160361

Some Arab regimes only see one path to existence with Israel - total surrender to Israel. They would do well to remember:

https://twitter.com/x/status/1739313954566897917

'From the river to the sea' deemed hate speech while 'mainstream' J Post calls for ethnic cleansing

https://twitter.com/x/status/1739395027908911176

 

[Davey Crockett]

Israels Critical Infrastructure Under Massive Cyber Attack, Widespread Power Outages Reported

A major cyber attack has been launched on Israel’s critical infrastructure, causing widespread power outages across the country. The attack, which began on December 25, 2023, has left authorities scrambling to restore services and investigate the source of the breach.

 

[Meengla]

You guys need to exert some self discipline and recognise when someone is filibustering a thread.
It's as if thread bickering is consequential to the actual conflict, it is not, this is not a battle field.

You are right. I just ignore his posts. And not just his but just about all posts which bring the historic explanations about this conflict. As I keep saying, time for that kind of discussion is long gone and time to decide the conflict, through violence, has come.

Speaking of violence, this is THE conflict which is going to settle things between the Israelis and the Palestinians for decades, if not permanently. Israelis are already calling it a 'multifront war' today: Possible first serious US casualties happened yesterday in Iraq by the militias, Hezbollah is more active daily, W. Bank is in a mini-insurgency, Houthis have blocked Eilat and are preparing for me, and who knows what kind of Non State Actors are gathering in Egypt--while Sisi may not be supporting the Gazans there are certainly many in Egypt who do. Plus expect Syria to be in the news more and more. All that, on top of the Gaza conflict.

An Israeli columnist yesterday correctly identified this as a war of attrition--something we have been saying on PDF for the past several months. According to him, low key wars to drain Israeli resources and moral, leading to Israel's 'destruction' is the plan. Israeli economists are predicting GDP deficit (whatever that is) to rise from 2.5% to 5.9% for the next year--and that's not even factoring in Hezbollah involvement. The Gaza conflict is only budgeted through Feb. 2024 and after that taxes to be raised and/or development projects to be cut down. There is anger in lots of Israelis because of businesses shut down and lots of income. The promised American $14 billion will only help so much--much of that is military aid anyway. Israelis are now having to carefully use their weapons in Gaza because their reserves are depleted enough to cause a shortage in case of a northern front. Israel defense industry is finding it harder to procure hardware from other countries because, in addition to this conflict, the Ukraine-Russia conflict had much depleted the global reserves. The despair is so much that one Israeli columnist even suggested to give up 90% of the West Bank by removing most Settlements to create a 'civil separation' of Jews and Arabs, allow full repartition of Palestinian refugees back to the Palestinian controlled land, to allow a quasi-independent Palestinian state with security controls by the IDF.

Above paragraph is my summary of reading various Israeli newspaper last night and clearly shows a sense of despair and futility. I don't think the Gazans/Palestinians have lost this conflict--at least not yet!

 

[Meengla]

An Israeli POV: A good read about the war of attrition, Iran's goals, and the low key Hezbollah involvement so far.

As Israel-Hamas war continues, Iran watches and waits

Analysis: As well as fighting in Gaza, Israel busy fending off attacks from Hezbollah in north and Houthis in Yemen; Tehran, which is behind all the attacks, hopes to exhaust Israel, says expert

www.ynetnews.com

...
“Iran can be satisfied that its tactic of unifying the arenas against Israel is working, albeit at low intensity,” Dr. Yoel Guzansky, a senior researcher at the Institute for National Security Studies, said. “All the arenas are active, and Israel is preoccupied, surrounded by fire. The Iranian interest is to exhaust Israel,” Guzansky said.
...
Tens of thousands of people, the majority of people living in northern Israel, have been evacuated further south, and the fighting between Hezbollah and Israel is currently being contained by both parties. However, this could well escalate into a full-blown war.

For Iran, supporting Hezbollah has always been part of its regional strategy and aspirations. But with the Shi'ite group, and by extension Iran, being careful to avoid further escalation for now, Iran may be signaling that its desire lies elsewhere at the moment. “By exhausting it, Iran wants to hurt Israel,” Guzansky said. “But ultimately, Iran wants to safeguard Hezbollah as its insurance policy.”
“Iran doesn’t want to wear out Hezbollah, because it needs it in case Israel attacks its nuclear facilities,” Guzansky said. “What is happening now is convenient. Israel’s north is paralyzed, and Hezbollah losses are almost insignificant.”
During the current war, Iranian-backed militias have also launched drone strikes against US military bases in northern Iraq and eastern Syria, causing several casualties, and the United States has retaliated.
“First and foremost, Iran operates according to its own interests,” Maj. (ret.) Alex Grinberg, a former Israeli military intelligence officer and an expert on Iran at the Jerusalem Institute for Strategy and Security, said. “Iran will continue sacrificing Hezbollah as long as it works for it, but if it wanted to escalate, it would have directed Hezbollah to use all of its firepower,” he said.
For Israel, the situation is not as convenient. The evacuation of the country’s northern and southern residents has paralyzed those areas, and the economy and agriculture have come to a standstill, at a staggering toll.
..
Both Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Defense Minister Yoav Gallant have repeatedly warned Hezbollah against escalating the situation. “Israel says it cannot put up with the current situation, but it doesn’t have much choice, as the US is stopping it from escalating,” Guzansky said.
...
For now, Iran is watching closely to see how successful Israel will be in its stated aim of crushing Hamas. If Tehran perceives Hamas to be close to destruction, it might be motivated to ramp up the fire.